My HPE....now a rolling recommission

[Nigel]

Eric,
Before I make a mistake, these appear to be the 2 bearings I need.

https://www.deltaintegrale.com/shop/delta-integrale-8v-transmission-and-drivetrain/46403499

https://www.deltaintegrale.com/shop/delta-integrale-8v-transmission-and-drivetrain/46403498

have I got this right?
Many thanks
Nigel

Unfortunately the first bearing listed [499] is too large in outer circumference, the other dimensions match.
I haven't yet identified another which might match.
Eric, I know it was a while ago you built your box, but do you have any more helpful info?

Regards, Nigel

[squiglyzigly]

Hi Nigel,
This is my information that I have accrued over the years.
When I rebuilt my late i.e./VX gearbox last year it was correct.

Primary shaft
Late gearbox uses double row larger bearing on 4th/5th gear outer end
Fiat 60808434, 7745838

ORDERED Eco torque ltd
SKF  444455 C or BA2B 633668A     GB12152S01 SNR
AG Automotive 3260014AG

Dimensions 28x67x28.2

I believe this information correct but I’m not 100% on all of it.
Hope this helps


Ian

[WestonE]

Hi Nigel

Packing for moving has my reference info buried in a Lock up. I know I used an Integrale Base Bearing and the Integrale double row bearing as well but have no numbers here to refer to.

Sorry

Eric   

[squiglyzigly]

Which is the other bearing you are looking for?
The second shaft inner for the pinion end?

Secondary shaft pinion end no. 82310130 SKF BC1B 635051 B - this Is a 14 pin metal cage roller 42x80x18. N12099-SNR full compliment

N12099 bearing can be sought from a number of bearing suppliers or indeed fleabay.

Again this was correct for my late box

Ian

[Nigel]

Ian,
Those cross-references for the Primary Rear have really helped.
No uk stock so far, but i'll continue looking.....

All the others I now have, so many thanks.

Eric, thanks for responding.

Cheers, Nigel

[Nigel]

The gearbox work has properly started with an inspection
of the diff. The right side output shaft splines had visible wear,and I measured
the end-float at 0.50, this is at least 0.20 too much, but as I wish to use that crownwheel assembly I
stripped the other,complete,diff to extract that side shaft. I then put it back together
and got lucky with the end-float shim sizes, and achieved 0.25 on both sides,result.

I've now got the diff back in its housing, without any flange seals in
preparation for the pre-load adjustment. I've used my 2 shims together behind the
right-side flange,and nipped up the 4 bolts until I got a feelable loading,then
measured the gap between flange and casing. The calc deduced a 2.35 shim requirement.
Luckily, Bayless has this plus the 2 either side of this size i.e. 2.30 and 2.40 hence my order,
figuring that any error should be able to be corrected with all 3.

I've been closely looking at Paul Valente's photos and info on an FB post of
a build he did some 5 years ago. Extremely detailed and valuable. [ a link is in the
'Transmission' section,kindly posted by PeeWee ]

I made up a 'tool' to lock the left-side output flange to the pinion carrier, a rather simple
plastic tube from my plumbing stock,and it works a treat. It's this detail that's missing from
the Haynes manual,without this 'tool' a preload is impossible as you'd be conflicted
with the planetary gears turning.

Now on a ,hopefully short, pause as I await parts.

[peteracs]

Good stuff Nigel, have you looked at the gearbox gears yet?

Peter

[Nigel]

Peter,
An early look didn't reveal anything untoward, but I was still hoping
to find the reason it was stripped in the first place. It all looked fine until
I found yesterday that first gear is almost impossible to select [ by sliding the hub manually]

Much inspection followed, and still does. The hub will not slide over the gear dogs.
Excuse terminology.
More looking tomorrow, but I may well be tearing down the other [complete] gearbox
to harvest some parts, something until now I was trying to avoid. However,as i've already
taken an output shaft from the diff, it's not complete anyway.

Help, I'm running out of space! Kitchen table next.

[peteracs]

Hmm not likely to get any car parts near the kitchen in our house, divorce would be on the cards.

If you need a n other gearbox/parts, albeit not VX, let me know as here a few spares!

Peter

[Nigel]

My shim calcs were out slightly for some reason.
Nevertheless, here's a question:

In which way would be preferable, a preload thats on the loose side
or on the tight side of given parameters? Is there a good-practice erring?

Your opinions...
Nigel

[squiglyzigly]

Kind of depends how loose/tight?

Ian

[Nigel]

Ian,
In the time since I asked that question I visited a huge engineering firm
near me and asked if they could make a 2.25 shim. Indeed they could,
and they wouldn't even let me buy them a drink. Thanks to Mark at MKE.

And, of course, they can make any thickness,so that query becomes irrelevant.

Shim inserted,side plates sans seals, and a suitable mid-range mass and it almost wants
to rotate. Adding 100 grams and off it goes. So i'm nicely in the middle.

I'll now fit the seals and O rings and this part is complete.

[WestonE]

Hi Nigel

Well done! I have just found a list of Gearbox Bearings as I strip my office to move. Shared here.

[Nigel]

Eric,
That list is quite helpful, thanks. I've now got all the parts I need
[minus the unforeseen items] to continue the build. I'm now figuring out
tools to pull off the bearings and gears from the secondary shaft.

Meantime,i've come across an issue with the column cowling.
As noted previously here, I have a left-hand-drive switch fitted,
and now i'm attempting to fit the pair of LHD cowls. There's a
large spade connector for the lights that is fouling the lower half.

I think that I may have to trim the lower half to make it fit, unless i'm doing
something wrong [which is quite likely!]
It's not a common issue I know.

[Nigel]

Back to the gearbox, and i've now got the secondary shaft stripped ready
to install the diff-end bearing. It took some making of plates to wrap
around and fit under gears etc, quite a faff but very satisfying.

While I build up the shaft i'll be selecting the best of the synchro rings,measuring
the gap [1mm +- 0.13mm] as per Haynes. The larger the better,indicating less wear.

The new diff-end bearing doesn't have a cage,instead it's got a circlip holding it
together. This means it'll be slightly more tricky to insert the two shafts simultaneously
into their housings. It doesn't appear to matter which way the bearing goes onto the shaft.

I've got some various sizes of aluminium and steel tubing which i'll cut to size for pressing on
the gears and bearings.

Perhaps by tomorrow evening i'll be ready to start the box reassembly.

[Nigel]

The build up of the gearbox was uneventful ,and today I got
the old box out and new one in. It wasn't easy, quite stubborn,
and I have aching joints I didn't know existed.

Not finished, loads of reassembly still to do, but the hard part's done,pheww.

No dental floss used this time. I cut heads off and slotted 2 bolts to use as
guides, they also keep the spacer plate in position. I also slotted
the hard-to-get-to rear gearbox mounting holes. Much easier to fit now.

Nigel

[Nigel]

The gearbox build was actually done twice, and I forgot to
mention that the primary shaft rear bearing wasn't the correct version.
It measured exactly except for one detail, the position of the
circlip slot which can be seen in the photo. This, I found, prevented
the retainer plate from seating correctly. The right hand in the image
is the correct original.


So I elected to use one of the used bearings,the least visibly worn. Rationale being
that I really wanted to try out the VX ratio without further delay, and that I can
change that bearing later without removing the bellhousing/diff.

I can hear that used bearing but it's a whole lot quieter that the box of spanners that came out.

And a brisk road test resulted in 70mph [google speed] at 3200rpm.
Performance through the gears remains without noticeable difference.

[peteracs]

Hi Nigel

Good result apart from that bearing. How did the car pull in 5th as opposed to steady speed running?

Peter

[Nigel]

Good point Peter, and,as i'm going to do another road test tomorrow
evening, I'll do a timed run from 50 to 70 in top gear at full throttle.

That should give a sort of idea, unless you have a more useful parameter.
I'll also try a 0 to 60 as well,as it's a common benchmark.

Regards
Nigel

[peteracs]

Hi Nigel

I would have thought the intermediate gears would be not an issue, just change up speeds different. The big question is how well your essentially standard carb car copes with varying gradients in 5th, where it may struggle on motorway climbs etc whilst keeping up with the traffic.

Peter