Lancia Beta Forum
General Category => Members Cars => Topic started by: deks on August 11, 2025, 07:50:18 PM
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So, Ive already done my new member post but thought I'd start my cars story here.
I bought this end of July on a whim I guess you could say. Ive a limited budget and been unsure what I actually wanted ranging from 1950's upto 2000's. I really wanted something Tax exempt and had a preference for a V8 RWD Nothing worthwhile was coming up in my sub £3k budget running or otherwise. I follow multiple auctions and then saw this Lancia Beta Spyder 2000. I worked on these as an 18 year old as my boss was an italian so we saw a lot of Italian cars come in. I am very aware of the issues with tin worm though in fairness anything built in the 70's 80's suffers from that problem. I am very much a Ford man and my 40+ years of car ownership would show, however theres a few too many noughts on classic Fords for me and this also to me makes them unusable in the real world and I want to be able to use mine classic daily if I so choose.
So i out a bid on of £2000 un seen as for that money I wasn't wasted a weekend driving to North Yorkshire to view it. Should I have done quite probably given what i have since found needs attention. Would I have seen them all had I viewed definitely not. Would it have made a difference hard to say but at £2k most likely not. So my maiden bid wa the only bid the seller wanted nearer £3k but I wouldn't go to that and I agreed on £2250 plus charges so car was mine for £2450 plus delivery fee of £190. on arrival I thought every thing was great and good to go however since its been here I have found the following so far that needs attention some of it urgent
Core plug missing on front of block
fuel leak near the tank
rear roof needs replacing
carpet needs replacing for original one not the home made it has
sticking brakes
drivers door glass frame need a repair as its bending due to rust where it meets the door frame
both rear quarters have visible signs of rust around the joint with the sills
front edge of bonnet needs work
bodywork is generally ok but its clear its been done before
noisy exhaust that needs looking at due to slight blow at a joint
gear linkage
new battery
cam belt and tensioners
full service
spare set of keys
So am I going to fix the faults and use or am I going to do the right thing and strip it and restore it fully now
I genuinely dont know largely because at this moment in time I would struggle to finance a full resto right now
I will definitely being doing the urgent things like core plug and fuel leak as i really need to run the engine up to see how it performs
So here is the start of my journey and I will return here with updates and questions which I know I will have
actually to start how do I know which of the two horse power engines they seem to list when stating this car and does it make a difference on any of the parts it will need.
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Hi
Glad you are not instantly horrified at what you found, probably normal for a £2k one of these cars now.
A full resto will be expensive, especially given your comments unless you do all the work yourself. If the door is bad, go for a n other if you can find one. The lower lpart is common to the Coupe, the difference is the upper frame.
Bonnets are harder as most do rot, especially along the front edge.
The sills are very common rot points as are the floors in the Spider, also check the A pillar inside the front wings, though hopefully you have the wing liners.
On my Spider the rear turrets were badly rotted out, mainly around the base.
Really odd to have a core plug missing (ice damage?)
You can check the engine code which is stamped on the block just above the oil filter housing. Your badge implies 2l which would make sense as most later cars were 2l.
My restoration is here (long) if you want to see what I found.....
http://lanciabeta.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1936.0
Peter
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No not horrified at all. In some ways given its a 46 year old Lancia I am quite surprised how solid it seems. There is evidence i can see that some one has been round it before and I expect the sills for one are not original and given how solid the floor feels I'd guess this too isnt original but when I take the seats and carpet out I will get a better look.
Core plug issue is at a guess due to it being laid up with no antifreeze in it and isnt a big job if I can work out the size of core plug and buy one otherwise its a box of them off ebay
Mine is a 2.0 but they list an 83 hp and 115hp version in some places I look like insurance quotes etc
I’ve had my head under the bonnet of cars since I was 6. I’ve rebuilt more than I can remember
So hoping to do much of the work myself but haven’t yet decided about bodywork. I am sure I can do it but unsure if I can give it the finish a pro would it’s also been 30+ years since I’ve embarked e I’ve been near a welder.
I am waiting for the V5 to return as had to apply with a V62 hopefully that may have more info on it but no problem if it doesnt
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Hi Steve
In the U.K. there were 3 versions of the 2l, carb, IE and VX (Spider only had carb in U.K.). The 83hp sounds like it may be the US version, which was a de tuned version for their emission rules. Typical power for U.K. carb would be 115.
Check with Mark re the core plugs, see
https://353652584127257704.weebly.com/store/p494/40mm_Core_plugs.html
Peter
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deks,
As Peter says, the core plug is 40mm, a common size I believe. I had to change
one of mine on my hpe.
Hope yours is accessible.
Good luck with the car,
Nigel
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Hi Steve
In the U.K. there were 3 versions of the 2l, carb, IE and VX (Spider only had carb in U.K.). The 83hp sounds like it may be the US version, which was a de tuned version for their emission rules. Typical power for U.K. carb would be 115.
Check with Mark re the core plugs, see
https://353652584127257704.weebly.com/store/p494/40mm_Core_plugs.html
Peter
Once again many thanks for the info
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deks,
As Peter says, the core plug is 40mm, a common size I believe. I had to change
one of mine on my hpe.
Hope yours is accessible.
Good luck with the car,
Nigel
its the one in the front of engine. it looks if i remove the starter and radiator I should have enough room to fit the new one in. Then hope there isnt another missing elsewhere
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I guess you will find pdq when you pour water all over your feet :-)
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So my new axle stands arrived(wanted some with a bit more height and sturdiness to lift the car up higher than the cheap ones i had. Think I might regret this.
So first things is the wheel bolts which Ive asked about on a separate thread but more worrying is what I found with some ease just by looking and a prod with my finger.
This is going to go further than i wanted to go when I purchased but probably expected to find.
the pile of rust i pulled out of the sills with my hand
Think I need to dig further before I spend any money in case its too far and too much for me
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Hi Steve
That does look pretty bad, I would also look at around the base of the rear turrets (under the rear seats) and the floors which are the other favourite places to go.
Peter
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Hi Pete, Yes I am going to take the seats out this week if I get time in the evening and lift the carpets to see how the floor.
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are these the correct bolts for hold the discs on ? they are the same on all four just seem a bit large to me.
one rear disc needs replacing as the centre lip is half missing and the calliper that side is seized
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Same on my Coupe and its pretty original. You are right though, I thought the same when I removed the wheel. You can buy from Betaboyz Spares a guide pin.
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So, I kind of think I know where I am headed with this car. It isn't what I intended but it is what it is. Before I spend any money its a case of investigate first to make sure it doesn't become an endless pit with no chance of being anywhere close to what its worth once its done and on the road. It's a classic and I haven't bought it to make a profit I bought it to enjoy(thats looks a bit further off than intended). So today I spent an hour on my return from London weekend away and have stripped the seats out and the carpet which clearly once graced someones lounge. theres more rust than I'd have liked but I am happy it seems mostly solid. I think I am going to have to invest in a sand blaster or equivalent.
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Hi Steve
That is not too horrific so far on the floor, so not too bad as you say. You do however have to check the rear inner wings which will mean taking out the rear quarter cards etc.
Peter
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Hi Steve
That is not too horrific so far on the floor, so not too bad as you say. You do however have to check the rear inner wings which will mean taking out the rear quarter cards etc.
Peter
Yes Peter. That is in my mind as per our conversations. I did the seats today with the car under cover. The rear cards have some handle/arm rest ashtray thing that I could get off largely as I could see whether it was a screw head/bolt or unlikely a torx to get them off. When I meet you that’s something I want to discuss as they don’t look correct for the 1/4 cards. I will try to get them off this week one evening as I know I need to look at this area. Then next on the list will be to fix the core plug and fuel leak so I can run the car up to temperature to check engine is ok.
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so a bit more dismantling and some more holes. These ones concern me more than the others it has to be said.
I do know my way around a car but a metal fabricator and welder I am not.
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I cant zoom in on those holes, where are they?
There are all different levels of car refubs here in this Member Cars blogs. Maybe look through and see if someone else has done similar and try and get a rough price?
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I cant zoom in on those holes, where are they?
There are all different levels of car refubs here in this Member Cars blogs. Maybe look through and see if someone else has done similar and try and get a rough price?
Today’s holes are in the rear wheel arches at the top of the turret mount.
I believe Peter(admin) has done this as it was him who advised me to check this area.
To be honest I have a very good friend down in Kent who I can ask to guide me on expected costs however it is my intention to have a go myself though I’ve never done fabrication or welding but seems the time is now to learn
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Hi Steve
Some of this will be familiar......
http://lanciabeta.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1936.0
Peter
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Likewise:
http://lanciabeta.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3644.0
To be fair I chose to go into this much work - it could have been done as a rolling resto. If you're ever passing Suffolk you're very welcome to pop in for chat, learned experience and sympathy!
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Likewise:
http://lanciabeta.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3644.0
To be fair I chose to go into this much work - it could have been done as a rolling resto. If you're ever passing Suffolk you're very welcome to pop in for chat, learned experience and sympathy!
To be fair, having had a quick scan thru your thread its been an eye opener and given me a better understanding of what I am embarking on. I intend to try and do everything myself though I have never fabricated or welded but I do know my way around cars .
Got try and do as much as possible in order to not be into lottery win territory to afford it
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So I found myself with a spare hour or two this afternoon as I was doing some work on my daily driver but come to a stop due to parts so thought I'd take a look at the fuel leak. discovered it to be no more than a clip so thats been replaced. I will before the car goes on the road replace all the fuel lines and the electric fuel pump thats been retro fitted on the rear subframe as I am not confident its been wired correctly.
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Moving on to the engine bay. Ive started to dismantle a few parts so I can get to the missing core plug to replace. The only annoying thing is everything Ive removed Ive got to out back all the removed parts so I can run the car ups and make sure the engine is ok before I remove it. During this process I have found someone has directly fed the cooling fan and temperature switch to the battery. Which means at some point Ive got to work that out and rewire it correctly.
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Hi Steve
The cooling fan goes via the temp switch at the base of the rad and is connected direct to the battery normally.
Peter
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Hi Steve
The cooling fan goes via the temp switch at the base of the rad and is connected direct to the battery normally.
Peter
Hi Peter. Many thanks for this info. This is how it was wired though poorly as the wire was literally stuck down the side of the pole and connector. I will connect it up properly when I put it back in a few days time.
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So this weekend i took on the task of fixing the fuel leak which turned out to be no more than a clip. I will however during the works I plan to do replace all the fuel pipes. I also fixed the missing core plug and pleased to say that it was only the one and I then filled the cooling system and ran the car to temperature with the fan cutting in and out as it should. Annoyingly this showed me further issues. The main coolant pipe(metal) is corroded so will need to replace that and both the hoses for the radiator need replacing as I expect will all the coolant hoses. Added to that there is a metal rod on the bonnet that sprung off as I removed the bonnet and I am yet to locate this.
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So, spent the afternoon removing some more parts of the car and finding more rust, well uncovering what I knew was present. One of things thats always bothered me with buying a car thats been restored is how well did the person do it etc etc. Now this wasn't anywhere near what anyone would call restored but it has clearly had lots of work done previously and some of it not as professional as one would like. for example the what looks like filler spread around the door bottom curve of the door shut. Also found some trims on the door cards that have been put in place broken and held in with mastic/sticky stuff.
So Ive removed the chrome trim off the side of the car and it has revealed the extent of the rust behind it.
The issue for me presently is the one I am sure many go through which is what have I taken on. I pondered this lunchtime of do I do this or just make good but if I just make good it won't be right and will need proper work doing in the future which is pretty much I feel what's happened in the past. I accept its a down hill path for a fair bit further for me until I've fully dismantled the car to a shell. Then it will start to be a journey to the end. I am also questioning whether I have the ability to fabricate and weld but thankfully some other threads I've read has helped give me some confidence I should be able to manage. Ive never welded or fabricated. I've done bodywork and spraying though.
At the start Felt 2 years would be enough time and I shared this with a wise forum contributor who's measured response left me feeling maybe I was wrong and I do now accept it will be more than two years not least on financial grounds but ability to spend the time it will need to fix everything. still I am only 59 so plenty of time to finish the car
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well good luck. I think I could do the work but not sure I want too, or have the time and energy. Maybe if I had a really big garage I could just walk away without packing up. That would be nice. Maybe car number two :-)
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well good luck. I think I could do the work but not sure I want too, or have the time and energy. Maybe if I had a really big garage I could just walk away without packing up. That would be nice. Maybe car number two :-)
In fairness. I am currently going through some doubts in my mind myself. I am a little concerned I've bitten off more than I can chew as the saying goes.
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So I've carried on with the strip out this morning. Having a break as my back is complaining. Got the roof off, taken the doors and wings off this morning.
Please to say that the A posts seem to be really solid, maybe because the arch liners are still present which I was advised is a rare bonus.
However the area where the main roof hinge is, is a a different story.
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Spent another day taking bits off the car so now Exhaust, rear suspension and subframe is off as is the Front suspension
much of the engine harness and connections are undone so hopefully tomorrow I can drop the whole lot out on the subframe
just need to crawl under it first and make sure I have undone everything
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I am going to do a thread in engines as well but one thing I might need to solve is why I appear to have a distributor on the rear can carrier
My guess is that the engine in the car may not have started life in it
If that is the case I hope it doesnt cause me any issues with parts..
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Hi Steve
Parts are all pretty much interchangeable in the head dept. The only slight question may be it has IE cams, or VX which may not suit the carb setup so well and I have no idea how you tell. Hopefully someone here may be able to?
Peter
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So you have a block mounted Dizzy. Then that Cam mounted Dizzy with no advance mechanism probably means someone put a head on from a Beta IE without swapping the cams and cam boxes over. The cams will be fine from a performance perspective. You might want to blank off the end of the cam box with a core plug and some araldite in the dizzy mount to make it look nicer.
Eric
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Engine, gearbox and subframe out this morning
For the time being thats about us much as I need to strip out(apart from the windscreen)
Whether I need to strip to a bare shell will depend on whether I choose to go down the dip route.
Next purchase will be a rollover jig to put the car on as I am too old to be lying on my back scrapping undersea and rust off ;D
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So you have a block mounted Dizzy. Then that Cam mounted Dizzy with no advance mechanism probably means someone put a head on from a Beta IE without swapping the cams and cam boxes over. The cams will be fine from a performance perspective. You might want to blank off the end of the cam box with a core plug and some araldite in the dizzy mount to make it look nicer.
Eric
Hi Eric, yes this would seem about the strength of it. I shall be removing that dizzy and blanking the end off. Someone has said they have a blanking plate which will help
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So when I purchased and as mentioned above I discovered a core plug missing under the carb which I fixed due to needing to run the engine prior to extraction.
I was aware of a further leak at the back of the engine during this process and today I found the culprit. although still largely in place there is a further core plug that has shifted and is just about hanging in so thats another to replace which isn't a problem. I was expecting to find one similar in the bell housing area but as yet I haven't separated the gearbox so may well do.
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So my car currently runs on an electric fuel pump. I was recommended to return this to mechanical as its unlikely to have been wired up correctly with a crash cut out in it. However this doesnt look to be possible as where the fuel pump is meant to go there is not a hole for it.. I am already aware the cylinder head is not correct for this car and now I am beginning to think its the whole unit.
On a plus side it does have a 4 branch manifold fitted though the joint to the middle section left a lot to be desired
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There's no core plug on the gearbox end but there is a big plate, 6 bolts and a gasket for the water jacket there. Access requires the flywheel to be removed. No big bobbie. I suspect the car originally had a full car engine fitted but this was replace with an injection one with the distributor installed and normal carb and manifold from the failed engine. Looks like there is little choice but to rewire the electric pump correctly. I'd also check the engine number against the V5 in case the change wasn't recorded?
Guy
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There's no core plug on the gearbox end but there is a big plate, 6 bolts and a gasket for the water jacket there. Access requires the flywheel to be removed. No big bobbie. I suspect the car originally had a full car engine fitted but this was replace with an injection one with the distributor installed and normal carb and manifold from the failed engine. Looks like there is little choice but to rewire the electric pump correctly. I'd also check the engine number against the V5 in case the change wasn't recorded?
Guy
Thats handy if theres no core plug on the back. I am an old skol Ford man you see and I am certain the cross flow did but hey ho. Had a very quick google for for crash sensor and first hit was brilliant and explains it fully and fairly simple to do. I am a very long way from that though but good to know.
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So onto the next stage. Been out and bought myself a rollover jig this afternoon. Only thing is I now need to fabricate and weld some brackets onto it so i can fit the car to it. So next purchase will be a welder.
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well got it on the jig and put it in the garage. Its not fully stripped yet. Still have more to take off but I was keen to get it in the garage to see if it fits and I want to store it over winter inside rather than out. I am considering building something out front of the garage to allow me to work in all weathers and at some point to paint it myself etc etc.
According to google though a car port comes under permitted development so I may just try and rig up something that will cover the car with a wood frame and polythene sheet covering that I can erect and take down when not in use. A single garage though isn't ideal for storing a car in along with all the usual junk
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You wait until you see mine it is 1930 semi single garage.. Your garage looks massive
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For some reason the either the angle or camera has made the garage look wider that it is. It’s just over 3m wide and about 4.5 m long. It’s double skinned. I do have have racking all down one side and across the back and the other wall has my bench which houses the compressor under it plus the obligatory fridge and freezer for the house in it.
Without all the homes stuff in it garage would be plenty big enough to house the car and work on it
So my choices are buy a large shed for the garden to move all the racking of which there are 7 bays. Build a car port in front of garage to house the car estimate I can build that for £800 from timber. Or buy a clarkes portable garage for £350 ish.
I’ve got so much other stuff in the garage that working in it as it is isn’t an option. Winters coming so no rush to make a decision. The cars out of the wet for now and I can’t see me starting on all the welding until the spring not least because of light and warmth in the evenings etc
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Hi
The problem is due to modern phone camera which appear to show as portrait on your phone etc, but the forum software thinks it is displayed in landscape, hence stretched.
The solution is normally to edit the photo by rotating 90 degrees, save and then rotate it another 270 degrees to effectively back to where you where, but the meta data with the photo will have changed.
Here is one of the photos
Peter
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The previous owner of my HPE stored it in one of these : https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-cig81216-heavy-duty-instant-garage--dar/ He had power and a hydraulic lift as well a full workshop!.
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Hi
The problem is due to modern phone camera which appear to show as portrait on your phone etc, but the forum software thinks it is displayed in landscape, hence stretched.
The solution is normally to edit the photo by rotating 90 degrees, save and then rotate it another 270 degrees to effectively back to where you where, but the meta data with the photo will have changed.
Here is one of the photos
Peter
Thanks Peter, weird how its not done that before and used same camera. I am not over worried to be fair I will keep an eye on and try to ensure I take them in portrait mode rather than turning the camera which I may have done in this case not sure (y)
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The previous owner of my HPE stored it in one of these : https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-cig81216-heavy-duty-instant-garage--dar/ He had power and a hydraulic lift as well a full workshop!.
I am considering this option but trying to think of long term solution that costs will benefit and thee garage though workable seem to suffer long term degradation from sun and wind.
we shall see what happens re alternatives in due course (y)
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So. Not done anything more on the car but I have spent some time building a new home for the car. Decided the garage wasn’t big enough for all the normal junk and the car to be able to work on and access things. So I built myself this in front of the garage. I just have doors to order for the front and one for the side
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Wow. I think my neighbours would have a fit I put something like that up, I'm sure you'll get away with it being a temporary structure.... Are you putting any heating in?
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I checked with the neighbours first, they were fine. The structure only sits 12" roughly above the fence that was already there. The structure is under planning/permitted development height its also behind the build line of my house. When I am done the enclosed sides and the doors will come off so it will be a pure car port. I do plan to heat it yes. I have a propane workshop heater and also an electric green house heater. As I plan to paint it myself I will need to get a decent dry heat heater though as the gas gives off moisture which I don't really want in the paint but thats a long way off
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Having seen the location, I would say it is very unobtrusive and a natural extension of the garage which impacts no one other than the person living there.
Glad to see you are going ahead with the project!
Peter
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funny how we take years to finish the small items in the bathroom, but knock up a whole workshop in a few evenings! Get cracking now and you could be done by Spring ;D
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funny how we take years to finish the small items in the bathroom, but knock up a whole workshop in a few evenings! Get cracking now and you could be done by Spring ;D
;D ;D ;D
I thought it took me a reasonable amount of time to put up but everyone local has commented on how quick I've done it.
Don't think the Lancia will done anytime soon I dont want to rush it and budget is limited as now not working and my in coming pension is less than unemployment benefit.
I've got to buy a welder first as theres a lot of that to be done but first job is to finish the strip out and then remove all the underseal
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Having seen the location, I would say it is very unobtrusive and a natural extension of the garage which impacts no one other than the person living there.
Glad to see you are going ahead with the project!
Peter
Thanks Pete. You are correct about obtrusion which I guess maybe why the neighbours were a little perplexed about.
Yes I am going to proceed. I am not going to lie I still wonder about the wisdom of it I know it won't be of financial reward but what I have learnt is no matter how good something looks on the outside it doesnt mean the car is as good as you'd expect so to buy something that cost more money may not lessen the work needed and at least now albeit a few years down the line I will know its right with nothing hidden..
I've no interest in selling it on and no interest in it being a trailer show dolly. Want a respectable useable car I can take out anywhere anytime. I am also considering modifications for example I love the sound of a pair of twin 40's so thats on the list if I can source them and the correct manifold. May look at PAS for the car aswell. I've seen an image on social media of a spyder sitting on steel wheels with chrome caps which I really liked the look of but couldn't find the image again to save it. all things a long way down the road though. First thing is the welder then to purchase a pair of sills as I am definitely going to cut them off so I can check what's behind them.
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must admit I prefer steels (just to be different)
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The standard 1300 steel wheels that were on my car for many years. I think Spiders always had alloys as well as all 2000 Coupes and Spiders.
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Like the look of those though I'd want to add chrome around the outer rim as well as the centre. Ive got a few years to think about it as plenty to do before I get to the wheels.
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From memory the standard steels were 5" and the alloys 5.5"?
Peter
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From memory the standard steels were 5" and the alloys 5.5"?
Peter
That's right Peter. The standard steels are not really wide enough for a 2 litre car, though they may have been made wider for 2 litre saloons?
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Just searched through FB to find the pic of the wheels I saw a while back and they are just the standard steels for Lancia as per the coupe pic posted earlier
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From memory the standard steels were 5" and the alloys 5.5"?
Peter
That's right Peter. The standard steels are not really wide enough for a 2 litre car, though they may have been made wider for 2 litre saloons?
Maybe, but you will not normally find them in the U.K.
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Well that has gone according to plan. Removed the windscreen today with the intention of getting it out in one piece. What I wasn't expecting was to find about two tubes of polyurethane sealant around it. Seems to me its been sealed up a few times. I cracked it removing the chrome but I doubt that would have made a difference if I hadn't. Ive removed more than 100 screens in the past as used to break cars for spares so I am capable of taking them out in one piece and I have the correct kit to do so. The screen needed to come out as theres rot around the frame so no escaping it. I am aware they are costly to replace but it is what it is.
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Are you planning to get it dripped or media blasted once stripped? Well done you for cracking on.
Mark
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Are you planning to get it dripped or media blasted once stripped? Well done you for cracking on.
Mark
The cost of dipping knocked me back a bit but it is what it is. I was trying to avoid dipping it as that means a full strip down which I was hoping to avoid but I feel I am going to have to do that anyway.
Every time I spend some time on the car like an hour so far this morning I find more issues. All to be expected and minor in the scheme of things but today is a steering wheel that won't come off the shaft and some wiring modifications that make separating the parts of the loom a little more of a challenge and of course I have no clue as to why they were modified and in some cases for what purpose.
I do still wonder am I doing the right thing and can I manage it all and the rebuild. I regularly wonder whether I should just cut my losses before I spend more money I will never recoup but then I also know that even buying something done can be a minefield and at least I know this should be right at the end of the process..
Anyway back to the question I am currently considering buying a home sand blasting kit the tank and parts are around £100 new plus the sand though I expect Ill need an air fed mask etc to use it as well but then I need that for paint. worth a try to save some costs. I am aware of more rust lurking in places I haven't got to yet and of course I want to be sure I've sorted it. So many things to think about going forward and I am sure all the guys here will have many of the answers I will no doubt burden everyone with when I start.
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know what you mean. I sort of would love and scared to have a complete body down to bare metal :-)
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From personal experience dipping is a fairly dramatic process and depending on your view, the price is not so high, but not insignificant.
I think the points to consider are, dipping gets rid of all the rust AND all the seam sealer and other crap on the body, so be prepared to have to redo that. It is however very quick process to give you an starting point. The issue may be you will not like that starting point as it will reveal just how really bad your car is. There are anecdotal stories of issues later after paint, though not met anyone personally with that issue. Time will tell on my car if that is true or not.
So I think that dipping should only be considered as an all in solution, ie if you are going to selectively repair parts of the car, then blasting and paint stripping/sanding is probably the way to go.
Just my view after having a couple of bodies restored (one dipped, one individual areas restored).
Peter
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From personal experience dipping is a fairly dramatic process and depending on your view, the price is not so high, but not insignificant.
I think the points to consider are, dipping gets rid of all the rust AND all the seam sealer and other crap on the body, so be prepared to have to redo that. It is however very quick process to give you an starting point. The issue may be you will not like that starting point as it will reveal just how really bad your car is. There are anecdotal stories of issues later after paint, though not met anyone personally with that issue. Time will tell on my car if that is true or not.
So I think that dipping should only be considered as an all in solution, ie if you are going to selectively repair parts of the car, then blasting and paint stripping/sanding is probably the way to go.
Just my view after having a couple of bodies restored (one dipped, one individual areas restored).
Peter
Thanks for the advice Peter. If I go ahead which I still intend to do so I want the car to be done properly. I dont want to be visiting rust again elsewhere that I hadn't dealt with. What scares me is spending the money on dipping to find the body is unsalvageable but then if I dont I could be spending thousands on a rebuilt that might equally be a waste. How to go about transporting the car to be dipped is also another topic to be discussed though a simple one to overcome.
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Hi Steve
Some of this will be familiar......
http://lanciabeta.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1936.0
Peter
Thanks Peter. I have browsed through your thread and that of sanremo but really should spend a few hours reading both. I am sure they will give me encouragement. Yours definitely looks worse than mine which for me is a plus maybe not so for you. Mine definitely looks worse now than it did when you visited it but as they say nothing that can't be fixed.
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know what you mean. I sort of would love and scared to have a complete body down to bare metal :-)
The body in white as they call it concerns me on corrosion level as it will rust further while its bare and being repaired
I have to say that my head tells me to do this as its the only way to be sure all the rot has been removed.
Sanremo had his done twice and then coated on the second time the second done after he had repaired all the rot so it was just a cleaning exercise then coated to stop the rust in the future
which seems areal sensible thing to do
I expect this will be the route I go even though it means all the sound deadening mastic and other such factoring things will need to be redone but this forum will give me guidance as there are a couple of members who who have already documented their journey's so i can read up on them and ask questions etc etc and it will ultimately lead to saving another beautiful Lancia.
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I used pro-strip who also offer a collection and return service. Their process usies phosphoric acid which leaves a protectinve coating. Mine has been bare since 2018 and although there's some very light surface rust it wipes off with a cloth covered in jenolite.
Regards the condition I can 100% promise you it's worse than you think - but it's not as bad as you fear. It will look daunting but I've learned so much during my resotration there are bits I'd happiliy tackle now that would (indeed did) scare the bejesus out of me when I first started. The only downside is I look back at some of the first bits and know I could do them better now.
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it will ultimately lead to saving another beautiful Lancia.
Yes, that bit.
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it will ultimately lead to saving another beautiful Lancia.
Yes, that bit.
thanks for advice. Prostrip are near Lincoln which is who I was looking at
I am sure it will be worse than it looks but that is kind of what we need I feel otherwise we might be leaving rust behind that comes back to haunt. Can you tell me what it cost you. Also as I am lazy can you look me to a thread if you've done one so I can add it to the list of make look at threads
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Hi
On the issue of the body after dipping, as Stuart says with ProStrip you can leave, but I just had it done once and John, the body guy, primed it to keep any rust off before any work was done.
As to ProStrip being in Lincoln (or near), yes you can deliver there, but the work is actually done in Nottingham. We had the body on a dolly which was transported by a guy with a trailer to them, but as Stuart says they did offer a collection service for him.
I had the car done in in two batches (main body, then doors, tailgate and bonnet). Not necessary to do it this way, it was how we ended up doing it, so cost more, but that was how it unfolded. The cost for the body was around £1250 from memory, but simply ring them and ask and they will give you a quote.
Peter
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Hi
On the issue of the body after dipping, as Stuart says with ProStrip you can leave, but I just had it done once and John, the body guy, primed it to keep any rust off before any work was done.
As to ProStrip being in Lincoln (or near), yes you can deliver there, but the work is actually done in Nottingham. We had the body on a dolly which was transported by a guy with a trailer to them, but as Stuart says they did offer a collection service for him.
I had the car done in in two batches (main body, then doors, tailgate and bonnet). Not necessary to do it this way, it was how we ended up doing it, so cost more, but that was how it unfolded. The cost for the body was around £1250 from memory, but simply ring them and ask and they will give you a quote.
Peter
Once again, Thanks Peter for info. I have to say the one thing I keep forgetting about is the boot bonnet and doors and must remember to strip them out before I send the car off ;D
I accept the price will vary as everyones requirements are different it was just to get a ball park figure so I know what I am roughly looking at so I can plan timescales etc etc.
As luck would have it for me I have hand a bit of a windfall with some unexpected money coming my ways at least it means I can progress forwards earlier than I expected
I need to speak to them as well to understand how they expect the car to be delivered and on what as its currently as you can see sitting on a spit frame which I wouldn't be comfortable sending it and pretty sure that isn't helpful to them either.
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Hi
Depending on your timing, the dolly I have on the HPE would become available and could be adapted to suit. It is on wheels and was what was used to send the body to Prostrip, though they will remove it when they receive the car is my understanding.
Peter
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Hi
Depending on your timing, the dolly I have on the HPE would become available and could be adapted to suit. It is on wheels and was what was used to send the body to Prostrip, though they will remove it when they receive the car is my understanding.
Peter
Have you got a pic of it Peter. Then I can see what I need. I think I have an idea but good to know. Might be a worthwhile investment just for ease of use when working on it.
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So I have been busy stripping the car this week. I think I am almost done. I have a brake pipe fuel pipe and check for any plastic clips bungs etc then it should be ready for the dippers.
Ive labelled up as much as I can and taken loads of pictures. Ive found an additional relay installed which runs to the cooling fan, Ive found a burnt wire behind the fuse box that wasn't connected to anything and Ive have several wires inside the car that have been added but seem to not go to anything. The fuse box connectors have been out before as its marked up. Lots of evidence of resprays and a few rodent homes found, one in front crossmember and one in the housing for the brake lever into servo unit.
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Hi
Here is the car on the dolly. Front fixings are to the rack fixing, rear is to the rear seat mounts which is not that useful to you so you could use the suspension crossmember fixings.
Peter
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Hi Peter. How do you think it will be before you’re done with the dolly? I could be interested but I don’t want you to rush for my benefit I am sure I can find a solution and will discuss with prostrip anyway.
Steve
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So I have now completed the strip down. The car is ready to go to Pro strip so I will make contact with them this coming week to discuss costs time frame and transport
Stripped the doors out today discovered one window frame a lot worse for wear which will need attention. Also discovered the front wings have undergone several repairs in the past.
To be honest much of the strip down has been a discovery of finding someone has been there before
I managed to get the paint code sticker off the boot lid, hopefully I will be able to use that again. Not sure the boot lid is the correct place for it to be located but I am sure someone will know where it’s supposed to be if it isn’t correct.
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Do you have a list of rot areas so far?
Really cracking on. You will be done by the Summer at this rate ;-)
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Hi Steve
I am going to be at least a couple of months away from thinking about removing the dolly. I have to build up the front and rear suspension which currently is a big pile of individual bits. So given your position, as you say, talk to ProStrip.
Peter
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Do you have a list of rot areas so far?
Really cracking on. You will be done by the Summer at this rate ;-)
yes all of it has rot ;D
so there are patches added to rear inner arches both sides
the front lower panel also
the inner arches by the sills both sides are in a really bad way
the top of both rear turrets have rot
the rear mounting area for the roof has rot
the bottom of windscreen pillar has rot.
the drivers door glass frame has rot
the bonnet has some rot on fit edge
I also expect to find some rot damage on the body when the paint is stripped
there are two places of concern to me that being the are across the rear between the boot and roof and the t bar going over the top of the roof both show evidence of filler
it won't be done this summer I can assure you of that. The welding will take me way past that I suspect as Ive never welded or fabricated metal work before.
I also intend to rebuild the engine and gearbox and rebuild or replace everything mechanical.
I do intend to paint it myself as well. Spoke yesterday with a trusted good friend of mine who owns a bodyshop in Kent and sought advice. So will be following that and to which he advised to paint the underside and inner parts but leave the outside until after it is up and running then do those panels which is what I shall do and if I make a has of the underside etc he can then paint the outer but I haven't told hm that.
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The inside of the boot lid is the correct place for the paint code sticker.
My drivers door frame was in a similar state to yours. I obtained a rotted out door with a good frame and that was cut out and welded in to replace my rotten frame. Cheaper than finding a good door in the end.
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The inside of the boot lid is the correct place for the paint code sticker.
My drivers door frame was in a similar state to yours. I obtained a rotted out door with a good frame and that was cut out and welded in to replace my rotten frame. Cheaper than finding a good door in the end.
Thank you for both parts of information
. Had not considered using part of an old door frame to make good.
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Well. Thats me in a bit of a quandary and hence this next comment. I have a couple of friends in Kent who are both long time car restorers. One had mentioned dipping the car the other has just advised me not to. In his words the wise thing you can do as the chemical never stops eating away at the metal. even showed me pictures of a new old stock panel that it had attacked. So I know several members have had it done and clearly going by the lack of comments here so far have been happy with the work. I am mindful of his advice but wondering if his experience is down to the place he used which is nearer to me than him it seems with a quick google but isnt the one Ive made contact with.
So the company I approached is Pro Strip in Nottingham though I am still waiting for them to come back to me.
If I don't go down the dip route I assume it will be sand blasting.
I am a bt confused now albeit by one negative comment from a friend but I know I've got to strip it back somehow so I can then deal with and see all the rust.
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I used Enviro Strip for my shell. It came back bone dry and it took the best part of a year for the fabricator to complete the panel work on it, I wasn't pressuring him as there was other stuff going on in the background at the time. It developed surface rust only and there was no evidence of chemicals being left in box sections when opened up for repairs. The shell was returned to Enviro Strip once the repairs had been completed, they re-dipped the shell to treat any surface rust (which would have also repeated the treatment of the whole shell, inside and out) and then electrophoretically painted the entire shell. Every surface, inside and out. When the shell was returned to the paintshop it was inspected by borescope which didn't reveal any untreated surfaces and the injection of enough Dynax to sink the Titanic should mean I have a shell fit for the next 50 odd years.
Obviously it only takes one bad experience to put you off the process but if you're planning on doing it right and keeping the car long term I think this investment is worth it. It's a big step to take but the result is that you will see just how good, bad or average the shell is. At that point you make the decision to carry on or not but you'll know that every nook and cranny has been dealt with.
Envirostrip offered a collection and delivery service too, it was covered obviously! They also liked payment in cash for a small discount.
Guy
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I used Enviro Strip for my shell. It came back bone dry and it took the best part of a year for the fabricator to complete the panel work on it, I wasn't pressuring him as there was other stuff going on in the background at the time. It developed surface rust only and there was no evidence of chemicals being left in box sections when opened up for repairs. The shell was returned to Enviro Strip once the repairs had been completed, they re-dipped the shell to treat any surface rust (which would have also repeated the treatment of the whole shell, inside and out) and then electrophoretically painted the entire shell. Every surface, inside and out. When the shell was returned to the paintshop it was inspected by borescope which didn't reveal any untreated surfaces and the injection of enough Dynax to sink the Titanic should mean I have a shell fit for the next 50 odd years.
Obviously it only takes one bad experience to put you off the process but if you're planning on doing it right and keeping the car long term I think this investment is worth it. It's a big step to take but the result is that you will see just how good, bad or average the shell is. At that point you make the decision to carry on or not but you'll know that every nook and cranny has been dealt with.
Envirostrip offered a collection and delivery service too, it was covered obviously! They also liked payment in cash for a small discount.
Guy
Hi Guy thanks for this information. The main reason I want to go this route as it reveal how bad the shell is in places I cant currently see and also when its treated after the welding it will do as you say though I dont expect I will be here in 50 years to know but at least I can hope to enjoy the car without the need for further works.
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Wow. that was a shock. just had the local dipping company call me back he's quoting me £4340 to strip the car to bare metal. Then when I have repaired it to send it back to him to then coat it
This is more than twice what I was expecting and a figure to be blunt I am not prepared to spend.
I think I need to really think about this and see where I go from here
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Steve,
I would 'bank' that 4k on a virtual shelf and consider it savings for now.
Have fun acquiring all the tools and equipment you'll need and
press on with the body repairs at a pleasant steady pace, learning as you go. Start
with the lesser seen places and progress from there. You've already found the majority
of the problem areas, a few more may pop up, soldier on.
As you go through it you'll be using plenty of weld-thru primer and such like coatings.
As you go, it'll turn into a very usable shell, ready for prime and paint.
That's a lovely workshop/spray booth you've built, now you get to use it right away!
Nigel, with loads of encouragement coming your way.
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Might be worth giving Enviro Strip a call? But yes, that's a scary number!
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Hi Steve
Yep, scary amount, though a break down on each operation may be useful to know?
Peter
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Steve,
I would 'bank' that 4k on a virtual shelf and consider it savings for now.
Have fun acquiring all the tools and equipment you'll need and
press on with the body repairs at a pleasant steady pace, learning as you go. Start
with the lesser seen places and progress from there. You've already found the majority
of the problem areas, a few more may pop up, soldier on.
As you go through it you'll be using plenty of weld-thru primer and such like coatings.
As you go, it'll turn into a very usable shell, ready for prime and paint.
That's a lovely workshop/spray booth you've built, now you get to use it right away!
Nigel, with loads of encouragement coming your way.
Thanks for the encouragement Nigel. As I am in no rush I will take my time and process my thoughts etc etc
I had already considered purchasing a DIY sand blaster kit and tacking the worst parts. I am sure a little research will find ways to tackle the hidden parts that cant be seen in order to treat with rust protection. I am sure I can also find a way to give it a good panel primer and an epoxy coating myself. Fist job to tackle will be to remove the underseal and I am sure that will take a week or two
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Hi Steve
Yep, scary amount, though a break down on each operation may be useful to know?
Peter
The details are below and I clarified with him that the two stage prices were to be combined
I also got a quote of £440 for transport (4 journeys and two visits to them )
Stage1. Full immersion Phos-Strip bodyshell & panels to clean bare steel condition. @£1575
After customer repairs we offer the following:
Stage 2. Full immersion E-coat for bodyshells , panels & components. This is the best anti-corrosion primer protection available and is synonymous with exactly what a modern day car would have as its base coat. & this is why cars don't suffer rust issues anymore.
Total net cost : @ £2150
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Might be worth giving Enviro Strip a call? But yes, that's a scary number!
Ive had quote from them which is considerably less
The cost to process your Lancia would be as follows:-
To paint strip & de-rust the body-shell & associated panels - £1295.00
Weld through primer (Spray Application) £695.00 not required if having e-coat
If you were to have the e-coat, then costs below would apply after the first stage paint & rust removal cost.
We recommend that you have your shell paint stripped of all coatings, collect the shell and carry out all repairs & then return it to us for E-Coat application.
Prior to the shell being E-coated a quick dip will be required to remove any surface rust & contaminates.
If any paint panels have been fitted to the shell after the initial process then extra costs will apply to remove the paint.
To post process & e-coat the body-shell (Immersion Process) - £2295.00
Collection & return to NG34 7WT £295.00
However. I have grave concerns about this company seeing the reviews and feedback from some customers which relates to my earlier post though I am sure the majority of cases are fine.
I did also note that they can give you a weld through primer quote which could be useful.
I do have a few weeks to consider as the money for this is not due into my account until then. Though either are more than I bargained on though envirostrip is a lot closer to my pricing
the former is about 50% of my guestimate to do the whole job which I am certain is massively underestimated based on what the parts Ive already looked at price wise will take a couple of grand and more.
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So today, I am spending a few hours starting on the stripping of underseal. Does anyone have an decent pictures of the rear wheel well area so I can see how it should look over how it currently looks
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There are some pretty good ones on my thread - or would be if Imgur hadn't blocked access in the UK.
I suspect a VPN connection would enable viewing. I will eventually get round to re-linking them but there are quite a few.
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Hi Steve
If you want to call round and have a look at the HPE rear wheel arch that is pretty much the same and there is no suspension in it at present.....
You could have a look at the Spider as well (stored offsite) but little to add to the story would be my view.
Peter
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Hi Pete. I will get that organised with you. I will drop you a text to discuss
Will do so soon ish as I am guessing you starting the rebuild of it and I will get some images taken
regards Steve
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Hi Steve
Hoping to get started on the rear suspension around Xmas time, so this month is a good time.
Peter
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Been shopping this week. Treated myself to a sandblaster. Used on eBay and it came with lots of sand. Will try it out over the weekend or next week
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Warn the neighbours there is a dust storm coming and they might want to cover their cars! I hope you have the required respirator mask for this. The dust is definitely not for breathing in.
Good luck!
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Yes I have an air fed mask for painting which will do nicely. The area in which I am working is mostly sealed with polythene as its my car port. I am going to try a small area to start with so I can assess the dust. I am thinking about installing an extraction system for spraying so may do this a bit earlier to extract the dust. Behind me is a very large drainage pond so no houses behind me that I can extract to. The dust is of concern so handy its winter months when most will have windows shut and no washing out either side of me though to be fair in 7 years Ive never washing on their lines but mine s usually full
thanks though for the sound advice about personal PPE
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my neighbours would hit the roof, everyone here puts their washing out and sits in the gardens etc. I have to open a consultation just to extend my drive.
11 out of 10 for cracking on though. Very interested to see the results and what you find. Its sounds fun tbh
M
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So today after several adjustments o equipment and a new trigger unit for the shotblaster I attempted to strip so paint with limited success it has to be said. Wow this is a super messy job and the stuff goes everywhere. Ive gone through a bag of grit already. Pebble dashed my head ;D but removed very little paint. The what looks like e poxy primer/ ecoat on the bottom is not shifting at all. The paint is coming off but not so good with underseal or rusty metal. The trial bag of grit cost me £24 I paid this as wanted to see if it would work can buy it bulk for cheaper price but I reckon now having tried it in a small area and looking at guide price for a professional shot blasting service to do the car It will come out near to the cheaper quote I had for dipping. the shot blasting is going to be extremely messy and the stuff will get everywhere as this small exercise has shown me. I am not too bothered as I can still use the tool and grit to do the mechanical parts that will need doing but for the shell I am going to give it some serious thought and re consider the cheaper dipping option or even shot blast professionally
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Back to basics today. as in elbow grease and some normal mechanical tools. Only tested a small area as I don't really need to strip the floor at present as plenty to do elswhere and the floor is largely solid.
Also sanded a bit of bodywork as wanted to see what the crack was(filler). seems to have had paintwork at least 3 times in its life. this was around the roll over bar.
Also got a couple of gifts from Santa Claus. next years list will be bigger and more expensive ;D
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my wife would roll her eyes if I showed her the mug :-)
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I was bought both the mug and the sign by a 'friend'......
Peter
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I did say to her the other day I needed a new and bigger Vice. She just looked at me...
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How are you getting on Deks?
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Sorry Mark, I missed the comment from Feb. Many apologies.
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So, Been quiet for a while as haven't really been near the car other than to move it out of the way. This has been due to winter, waiting on electrician to upgrade garage power supply and purchase of a welder.
Got a welder from R-tech at the show in March which is now ready to go having got the gas last week. Mask is being delivered this week
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So Making a start on the repairs needed to structure of the car. Why start with a simple part when a difficult one will do
The front crossmember which I originally intended to replace but stocks are now not available so repair I shall. the outer repair patch was not connected to the inner structure hence the subframe will have been floating around I suspect given the state of the inner metal to which the bolt is fixed
I may come back to this later rather than now as I think this will need skills I haven't yet developed and will also give me time to look about and hope a new or at least much better condition one can be located.
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So. thinks getting complicated in my life now, bought about by my deciding to add to my Lancia ownership by buying a very nice HPE which I hope to take ownership of in the coming weeks. just waiting for seller to fix an issue he refused to let the car go with then arrange for transport.
Anyway back to topic. now I have my full kit for welding I thought I would start practicing welding, I have never welded before and so it's a lesson to be learnt. I have as you can see bought new and what I am lead to believe is a quality welder from R tech.
I am nowhere near ready to start on the car both in ability and areas ready to be welded. Theres a lot of MOT passable welding to undo as well as tin worm
Here is my first and second goes at welding. the first was really poor given I pulled apart the two sheets of metal i thought I had welded
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Hi Steve,
I've also got an R-Tech, a 180. You've probably got the
updated version.
I started with 20% argon mix as it was the only version available
locally at the time. My results were below expectations for quite a while
until I replaced with 5% argon. I'm now getting much better at it!
Nigel
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Hi Steve,
I've also got an R-Tech, a 180. You've probably got the
updated version.
I started with 20% argon mix as it was the only version available
locally at the time. My results were below expectations for quite a while
until I replaced with 5% argon. I'm now getting much better at it!
Nigel
yes the 181 has a novice setting where you select wire size and metal thickness and it does the rest. I read up on your welding story and went for the 5% argon to start it was also recommended by a few others when I asked inc the supplier. I am going to play a bit more before starting on the car. Ive had a few more goes since posting these pics following advise given. So far happy with my progress. Lets hope I pick up the fabrication side of it as quick
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Like my wallpapering, I bet you will be really good by the end of the project :-))))
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Good choice with the R-Tech. It is soo much better than the Clarke/Machine Mart items. Mine has let me get away with welds that would be impossible. Always check your settings on test pieces before doing real work. Thicker stuff is easier than thin for learning on.
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Good choice with the R-Tech. It is soo much better than the Clarke/Machine Mart items. Mine has let me get away with welds that would be impossible. Always check your settings on test pieces before doing real work. Thicker stuff is easier than thin for learning on.
Thanks for the advice. The welder was recommended to me by a friend. I was looking at cheaper used items but artery were at resto show with a special offer on so took advantage of that albeit with the gas I am into it now for £1000k I do wonder how much I am saving over paying someone to come round and sort it out but hey ho.