Lancia Beta Forum

Technical stuff => Engine => Topic started by: deks on September 25, 2025, 04:47:38 PM

Title: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: deks on September 25, 2025, 04:47:38 PM
So Ive spoke of this on my thread but thought I'd do a post in engines

I appear to have what looks like a distributor on the rear cam carrier
but I have a separate one in the front of the engine as per pics


Anyone any ideas and if it isnt a dizzy what is it
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: Ferrit on September 25, 2025, 04:56:55 PM
Duel dizzyies :-)

I am guessing the top one is left over from it being a Vx head?
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: deks on September 25, 2025, 05:01:39 PM
Duel dizzyies :-)

I am guessing the top one is left over from it being a Vx head?

I've not seen a VX or its engine so thanks for the feedback.

Hpe it doesn't cause me any issues going forward.

I might look to blank it off while its out I am sure that won't be too difficult to do

Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: SanRemo78 on September 25, 2025, 05:08:18 PM
Most cars have the block mounted distributor. The Montecarlo/Scorpion has one mounted on the back of the rear bank, Fiat 124's on the inside of (what would be on a Beta) the front cambox and the iE and VX had them mounted on the end of the inlet camshaft where your second one is. To me this points to a head replacement from a later car? Unless it's something to do with emissions kit?
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: peteracs on September 25, 2025, 05:19:38 PM
Hi Steve

The normal carb type head has the blanking plate you need and I have one or two….

As mentioned it is probably IE head unless you are really lucky and have a VX head which had larger inlet valves. 

Peter
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: deks on September 25, 2025, 05:41:13 PM
Hi Steve

The normal carb type head has the blanking plate you need and I have one or two….

As mentioned it is probably IE head unless you are really lucky and have a VX head which had larger inlet valves. 

Peter

Thanks Peter.
Once I have the engine out etc I will seek guidance from the knowledgable people here to try and identify the head and work on what course of action maybe needed
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: Nigel on September 25, 2025, 06:58:22 PM
If you post the 7 digit cast-in number (between cyl 1 and 2 I think)
i've got a list to refer to.

N.
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: deks on September 25, 2025, 07:10:14 PM
If you post the 7 digit cast-in number (between cyl 1 and 2 I think)
i've got a list to refer to.

N.

Thanks Nigel. Hope to have the engine out tomorrow. I will look for numbers and share them here
Regards Steve
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: Nigel on September 25, 2025, 08:14:36 PM

Steve,
Sorry, a misunderstanding.....it's visible between the spark plugs at the top.

N.
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: deks on September 25, 2025, 08:54:30 PM

Steve,
Sorry, a misunderstanding.....it's visible between the spark plugs at the top.

N.
[/quote

No worries.  It’s still coming out tomorrow but at least I can find those details in situ 👍
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: deks on September 26, 2025, 08:52:30 AM

Steve,
Sorry, a misunderstanding.....it's visible between the spark plugs at the top.

N.

Hi Nigel. Numbers on the head are 437 2281    these were between plugs 2 and 3

regards Steve
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: deks on September 26, 2025, 10:43:37 AM
I don't think its just the head thats not right. There appears to be nowhere to add a mechanical fuel pump that mine should be running. Its been converted to electric and I was hoping to return it to standard.

Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on September 26, 2025, 10:48:22 AM
Maybe they dropped in a complete ie engine? I'm taking it that the blank in the middle of your second pic is cast or welded in? That is where the fuel pump fits, but an extra problem would be that the ie engine might not have the tab on the lay shaft to drive the pump?

Probably worth sticking with the electric pump. If done properly with a cut out switch it's usually an improvement on the mechanical set up.
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: deks on September 26, 2025, 10:53:59 AM
Maybe they dropped in a complete ie engine? I'm taking it that the blank in the middle of your second pic is cast or welded in? That is where the fuel pump fits, but an extra problem would be that the ie engine might not have the tab on the lay shaft to drive the pump?

Probably worth sticking with the electric pump. If done properly with a cut out switch it's usually an improvement on the mechanical set up.

yes the blank is part of the cast.  To be fair I dont mind the electric fuel pump and wouldn't even have thought about it had someone else like you mention a crash cut sensor/switch. Which I am now going to research.  The return for fuel pipe has also been disconnected but I assume this is because it would keep pumping as soon as ignition was on as the return would be sending back fuel.  I was going to reconnect that during restoration but wondering now whether I should or shouldn't.
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: Nigel on September 28, 2025, 07:52:00 PM

[/quote]

Hi Nigel. Numbers on the head are 437 2281    these were between plugs 2 and 3

regards Steve
[/quote]

Steve,
That's a fuel injected head you have. Coincidently, I have the same head on my carb-equipped engine.

Nigel
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: deks on September 29, 2025, 10:16:46 AM


Hi Nigel. Numbers on the head are 437 2281    these were between plugs 2 and 3

regards Steve
[/quote]

Steve,
That's a fuel injected head you have. Coincidently, I have the same head on my carb-equipped engine.

Nigel
[/quote]

The head at least. due to the lack of mechanical fuel pump location I am guessing the whole engine is from an injection car. Dont know whether thats better or not and doesn't really matter to me. A few little things to iron out on that front when i get to that stage but nothing thats of concern.
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: HFStuart on September 29, 2025, 12:16:19 PM
I'm not sure I've seen one before with the pump mounting removed at casting  - but then all of mine have been earlier. I wonder if it's still got the annoying lobe on the auxilairy shaft ?
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: peteracs on September 29, 2025, 01:00:24 PM
I'm not sure I've seen one before with the pump mounting removed at casting  - but then all of mine have been earlier. I wonder if it's still got the annoying lobe on the auxilairy shaft ?

Hi Stuart

The IE engine I stripped had a removable plate and still had the lobe.

Peter
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: deks on September 29, 2025, 03:23:57 PM
I'm not sure I've seen one before with the pump mounting removed at casting  - but then all of mine have been earlier. I wonder if it's still got the annoying lobe on the auxilairy shaft ?

No idea about any of that.

its got some weird mount points either side of the block as well that look as if they are mounts for a forward mounted engine but as far as i can think back Lancia never did a RWD

None of this matters really as long as it runs though I wonder if it will cause me issues if I need to rebuild it or buy specific parts such as gaskets though I am hopefully i dont need them and it won't matter if I do
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: peteracs on September 29, 2025, 03:35:56 PM
Hi Steve

The 4 bolts/studs are for an exhaust support on the normal exhaust

Peter
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: deks on September 29, 2025, 03:38:42 PM
Hi Steve

The 4 bolts/studs are for an exhaust support on the normal exhaust

Peter

Hi Peter. Many thanks for that learning each and every day
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: deks on September 29, 2025, 03:42:19 PM
So two things re engine 

First I can find the engine number that should be stamped on the block somewhere  possibly I am looking in the wrong place but Ill worry about that later


Second thing is the engine block code which I have found  28CB1 A O Lancia   on the block seems to relate to a VX engine so it looks like it's not just the head thats been changed which would make sense to be fair easier to just drop a complete engine in  Again not worried by this.
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: peteracs on September 29, 2025, 05:02:38 PM
Hi

The engine code is stamped just above the oil filter housing, should start 828, though can be hard to see some of the numbers sometimes.

I would be surprised if this was a VX engine given how few of them there were in the UK and how many more of the IE there was. Also the head is consistent with a late 2L non VX as the VX has a different head casting by having larger inlet valves.

Peter
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: deks on September 29, 2025, 05:14:18 PM
Hi

The engine code is stamped just above the oil filter housing, should start 828, though can be hard to see some of the numbers sometimes.

I would be surprised if this was a VX engine given how few of them there were in the UK and how many more of the IE there was. Also the head is consistent with a late 2L non VX as the VX has a different head casting by having larger inlet valves.

Peter

Hi Peter  yes found engine code as for type this is yet for me to learn  the same article that i found i google also mention I.E  the differences is something I know nothing about so you may well be correct in your comments  (y)
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: rossocorsa on September 30, 2025, 12:45:56 PM
I'm not sure I've seen one before with the pump mounting removed at casting  - but then all of mine have been earlier. I wonder if it's still got the annoying lobe on the auxilairy shaft ?
I think that my VX block has the fuel pump mount cast over, but I'll try to remember to check when I can, they probably started doing it at some point for both VX and ie. Still has the lobe but it can be cut off and plugged.
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: SanRemo78 on September 30, 2025, 10:52:18 PM
If it were a VX engine I’m sure it would have had work done to increase the compression ratio! Most likely a late IE.
Title: Re: Confusion over second dizzy
Post by: deks on October 01, 2025, 07:48:50 AM
If it were a VX engine I’m sure it would have had work done to increase the compression ratio! Most likely a late IE.

As I said to Peter. I still have to learn what engine is what. it was just what came up on google. Dont really know what the VX or the IE engines are.

I assume the engine in mine is from a later car with fuel injection based on what has been said with the injection system removed and a car fitted.
at first thought it was just the head that was different but it seems its the whole engine which would make some sense if fitting a second hand one in it

not sure if there are any power differences or advantage/disadvantage to this but there isnt much I can do about it either way ;D :)