Improvements to Beta Brakes

[mangocrazy]

I'm keen to get the brakes on my Spider up to a point where they're operating at maximum efficiency. The discs have been replaced in the last 5000 miles, the pads have less than 2000 miles on them and the flexi hoses have been converted to steel braided items. Despite this, brake performance is only so-so. I'm aware that the key to getting these brakes working well is to get the sliders operating at full efficiency, and also to ensure the brakes are properly bled.

So on this topic, I have the following questions. I'm sure the answers are well known to most of you...

1. How does one keep the sliders operating at their best? I'm a regular user of Copaslip (or more precisely, Wurth copper grease) but I can't help thinking that having the sliders, caliper mounts and hub mountings shot-blasted and coated in something rust-resistant and 'slippery' would be the way forward. But, what coating would people recommend? I did think about getting those components galvanised, but was warned off it (by a galvanising company!), as they said that this would promote galling and sticking and would have exactly the opposite effect to what was desired. Any ideas on suitable coatings and where to get it done?

2. I'm also a keen biker, and one of the first things I do to any bike I get is to fit bleedable banjo bolts (i.e. banjo bolts with an integral bleed nipple) on the bike clutch and brake master cylinders. It makes bleeding the brakes/clutch SO much simpler. Would there be any advantage in doing this on a Beta? Specifically, I was thinking of fitting bleed nipples to the banjo bolts on the master cylinder. Could this be worthwhile?

3. On stepping out of a modern car or van into the Beta, one of the things that strikes me is the amount of pedal pressure required to get a good degree of stop. Pardon my ignorance, but do Betas have a servo in the circuit? If so, would it be possible to uprate it? If not, would it be fairly simple to fit one? Obviously you wouldn't want to go overboard, but a bit of extra assistance would be nice...

4. If there's anything else I'm missing on brake maintenance/fettling, please let me know...

Cheers!

[lanciamad]

I'm one of the gang in favour of the beta brakes, I think there not actually as bad as people make out. I use my car on track as well as the road (when I can afford to and it's running right) so have used the full potential of the brakes as the originals, and now slightly modified.
The sliders I have had shot-blasted and cover them in copaslip everytime the caliper has to be taken off, seems to do the job for me but with anything if it's left a long time without being moved there's always going to be the beginning of corrosion/binding. Although I don't use the car as much as I should, when I do i've either been working on it, or give it a quick spanner check before a track day so there always having a quick clean and re-grease. With regular use there shouldn't been a problem.
I would only say fitting bleedable banjo bolts would be a good idea if your bleed nipples are seized and you cant remove them, if you can remove them, I cant see any point in fitting the bleedable banjo bolts, but suggest you replace the bleed nipples for either copper or stainless items to help prevent them becoming corroded and seized for the future. Not sure why you would want to fit bleed nipples to the master cylinder.
The beta does have a servo, (worth while checking your vacuum pipe to it for leaks) it's just the way they are. Havn't heard of any modifications to fit a different servo, so I can only suggest pushing harder and wearing heavy boots. If you think the beta's hard try a delta 1300lx! I've grown up with my delta, then delta and beta, and now delta, beta and delta turbo so i'm use to them, I find modern brakes ridiculously sensitive.
My current brake setup:
Goodridge stainless steel brakes lines
Dot 4 Racing fluid
Refurbished standard calipers painted red
Stainless steel bleed nipples
Front:
Drilled/Grooved Discs
Tarox Pads
Rear:
Standard Disc
Standard Pad
Cheers, Marcus.

[HFStuart]

I'm in the process of refurbishing the brakes on mine.

Prior to taking them apart the sliders were so well siezed that the pads had been bending and wearing slightly concave !

I dropped the sliders into a de rusting solution (Bilt Hamber) and then gave them a good wirebrush. Ideally I'd get them electroless nickel plated but I can say that now with powder coated calipers and a smear of copper grease the calipers slide with gentle hand pressure.

As a first step strip them down and get the sliders and their bearing surface on the calipers realll clean  - I think you'll be surprised at the difference. Note the sliders don't move in the hub mounting brackets so don't waste too much time on these.

Stuart

[mangocrazy]

Thanks chaps, some very handy suggestions there. I do have a fair number of spare brake parts (I kept the brakes, engine and a few other components when I reluctantly scrapped a Coupe in the early 90s), so I may take the opportunity of getting my spare sliders and brackets electroless nickel plated.

A set of powder coated calipers would set them off nicely as well - where did you get yours done, Stuart? And I take the point about copper or stainless bleed nipples, as well. I remember trying fruitlessly to drill out a stripped bleed nipple from an HPE caliper. It didn't end well...

I wasn't knocking the Beta brakes, by the way. I know they're still pretty good (if a trifle heavy in operation), and must have been exceptional by the standards of the mid-70s.

[HFStuart]

Biggred did mine - Google them to find their price lists. The work was OK but perhaps not 100%

Oddly when new Beta brakes were criticised for being too sensitive - How the world changes !

[WestonE]

Reading this thread you might need to replace your servo unit as the brakes are not normally heavy and are reasonable powerful, being considered very good when the car was sold new. You can find a new servo by searching internationally on ebay.

Personally as I am fitting a tuned VX I have been helping Mark Wastnidge to produce a big disc conversion for 15 inch wheels, but it is not quick easy or cheap. On the slides get them blasted and plated then keep the copper slip topped up. You may want to get the carriers blasted and plated as well.

Eric

[markwast]

All being well Eric, i will be bringing an assembled hub with brake disc, caliper, and bracket to Stanford Hall .

Mark

[WestonE]

Mark

That is awesome progress. I have been badly side tracked by workshop repairs and Montecarlo jobs. Did you manage to find out if the VW lug rear calipers will fit the Beta Disc?

Eric

PS an order is heading your way and I have a mint NOS rear strut spring rubber if you need one for moulding in PU? Let me know and I will bring it to Stanford Hall along with my now shiny black Montecarlo with matching stripes at last.

[thecolonel]

Black Montecarlo with Black stripes - interesting

[WestonE]

Geoff

My new stealth strategy!! Actually grey stripes but not all different shades of grey anymore and I have had a shiny black nose cap done as an trial look.

Eric

[markwast]

LOL.
Eric, ill have that pad from you, thanks.
If you going to Stanford Hall if your going, email me a list before then if you like. The parts website going offline today as im getting ready to move sometime during June.

Mark

[WestonE]

Mark

I tried the parts site earlier and it crashed at the Paypal stage. I will bring the rear strut rubber.
I am after: 4 x front PU struts pads, SH strut top cover plates x 2, Rear Exhaust hangers x 2 & 2 x Stainless bolt fittings for the ball joints. £83.xx
I am also still up for: 2x Front Strut Tops in PU, Quickshift, Powersteering arm bushes in PU in case you have managed to move forward with these.

I am looking forward to Stamford and hope to bring a box of surplus to requirements box of Beta bits.

PS Where are you moving to?

Eric 

[thecolonel]

Hi Eric,
I look forward to seeing it.

Geoff