beta front caliper overhaul

[droptop]

Since I have removed the engine mounts on the spider and it can't be moved anyway,I have finally admitted to myself that asthe brakes are worse than those on a ford popular, it is time to overhaul them.
I removed the calipers and the nipples weren't seized so I thought all was going well until I tried to seperate the caliper mount from the alloy piston housing.
Haynes manual said to "depress the pin and slide the caliper out of the slots" or words to that effect but I don't have a clue how to.
I tapped what I presume is the retaining pin with a pin punch and it seems to be below the surface of the cast bracket, but how do I actually seperate the two parts?
I don't want to pound on them with a copper faced hammer until I know the direction of travel and where to apply the blows.
Anyone done this successfully?
Any advice is welcome as I am determined to do it myself.
Seal kits for front calipers and master cylinder are on the way from Italy and I have a set of braided Goodridge hoses so I am looking forward to being able to stop in a reasonable distance.
Thanks in advance.

[rossocorsa]

if I recall right you need to use something to stretch the carrier apart so it will slide off the caliper but I'm at work so can't check my manuals no doubt someone better versed will be along soon. The calipers are a bit fiddly to overhaul releasing the rear most piston is the most awkward part it is held in with a recessed circular metal clip, fancy design reminiscent of pre-fiat  Lancias and a feature they didn't repeat on later cars 

[thecolonel]

Do me a small favour, post the brake hose measurements, end to end including fittings please.

Thanks
Geoff

[MattNoVAT]

I use a press to separate the carrier and ally body and also to refit.

It's a bit of a sod to do as it requires support in the right places.

Alternatively BigRedd renovate them for £130 or so. (I know you want to do them yourself though)

[droptop]

Got them apart. It took a while but no real effort at the end of the day. That internal clip holding the divider seemed the biggest problem until I removed it and then had to remove the divider.
I inserted a very large (Green) rawlplug into the hole and screwed a long 8mm coach bolt into it and was able to withdraw it by holdind the head of the bolt in a vise and tapping the alloy housing with a nylon mallet. trying to ensure it pulled out squarely was the slowest part. I am going to make a specific puller kit for the job ASAP. Again, not rocket science, just machined nylon and a rawlplug. I just enjoy constructing one-off tools I probably will never use again cos not a lot happens in these here parts
Just hoping the seal kits are correct when thet come as I saw someone received the wrong ones previously.
I find nonsense like that inexcusible at any price. If you can't supply the goods or perform the service, Then dont offer to. Simple.
I figure a couple of hours in the freezer for the housing to conctrict it before reassembly will make the task of sliding it all together easier.
I don't relish the prospect of spreading the cast iron legs with a nut and bolt so I am hpoing to reduce the required spread when the time comes.
Damn right I'm paranoid! I will also measure the original hoses and post the measurments tomorrow

[MattNoVAT]

Well, if the seal kits are wrong I have at least 4 sets!

[MattNoVAT]

Just had a thought..., why not put together a more detailed "how to" guide?

Helps others possibly save a few quid and makes it a bit less of daunting task.

No pressure though, it was just a thought.

[droptop]

OK, I have taken a few pictures of the process from start to finish of the first caliper which is now back together, but as yet untested and now I can proceed more easliy with the second one knowing the pitfalls, and when I am satisfied that the operation is as simple and smooth as I can figure it, I will write up my version of a how-to guide and post it along with the relevant pictures.
Everything is cleaned and the cast iron parts painted black (as the originals seem to have been) although the finish I used is a matt one. It is painted with high temp. manifold paint over two coats of Zinc 182 primer an I am pleased with the overall appearence.
Now the issue has arisen regarding the fitting of the braided hoses to the calipers. The original banjo ends had a locating dowel which prevented movement of the union and ensured they didn't start to leak due to the fitting turning by accident, but as the banjos on the now hoses are smaller, there is no locating dowel, so is there a risk of these loosening over time, or should I apply a tiny bit of loctite to the union bolt without fear of complications?
Finally, the length of the original front hose is approx. 525mm from the start at the male thread to centre of the banjo hole.
The goodridge lines are of a much smaller diameter, so I would suggest putting additional grommets at the point where they clamp to the strut body.
More soon!

[MattNoVAT]

On my first Hawk Stratos I had braided brake lines all round. Beta rear calipers and alfa 164 front calipers.  Both employed the dowel method to keep the oem brake line in place, but once braided lines were installed the dowel became defunct and was removed.

I drove that car for 3-4 years without ever having an issue with brake lines coming loose. I did not loctite them in place, just the standard copper washer and tightened up to correct torque.

Just ensure there is enough slack for the line to flex when the steering moves from lock to lock.

[droptop]

Thanks Matt. I am a little paranoid about ignopring anything originally fitted by a manufacturer as my thought is that they won't spend a penny more than necessary in manufacturing in the first place, but your answer is good enough for me.
I was equally paranoid about Loctite in the caliper as I don't want to have to rebuild them a second time.
By the way, how was the Hawk? Did you build it or buy it?
It's a project I would love to undertake and my only way to having a Stratos as it and the AC Cobra are my all-time most wanted cars.
I would have to drop about 60lbs. body weight to get into either, but what better motivation in the world?

[MattNoVAT]

The Hawk is a true replica and as such is pretty much a big go-kart to drive, very very precise steering, masses of power and a fine line if you get it wrong as the back wants to become the front.

I built my first over 5 years, it was a part built project with GC vx power which I replaced with 164 3 litre.  Soon as I got it a stripped it down and started again from scratch.  The one I have now was an unstarted kit. I think I may sell it though as both family and my career leave me with little spare time and two projects on the go is a difficult balance. We'll see though.

[MattNoVAT]

I sometimes wonder if those dowels are there more for the manufacturing process. While they do serve a purpose post construction, early construction methods may have used it to keep the banjo fitting in place while an engineer secured with the bolt and pipes didn't move out of position, thus saving time / making the assembly easier & quicker.

I'm just guessing though.

Btw - I'm >6 foot 4" the Stratos isn't a comfortable car to drive for more than 2-3 hours.  Maybe shorter people don't suffer same issues as us lanky types!

I will say this though... They are ferociously quick

[droptop]

Height in my case is about 5'10" but diameter is almost the same, hence the 60lb. circ. necessary, but probably never to be realised, weight shedding.
Would probably never get out of one if I could get in, so have to be buried in it. What a waste, eh?
Maybe I CAN bring it with me!

[archigraphe]

Hi to all...

As the front braking is deficient sur ma voiture..... 40% difference between the two front brakes....

I have to restore the front calipers.

And as I haven't find any "how to do".... I will  explain the procedure.....(hoping my googled traduction may help me.....).
 

The front calipers have 2 pistons.

the principal is controlled by the front brake circuit : 45mm dia.
the second is controlled by the front-rear mixed circuit: 34mm.

Once the cylinder holder is disassembled, the main piston is extract naturally by sending compressed air in the brake-fluid hole.

The piston clear, you can see a snap ring holding the intermediate piston. It is necessary to extract this snap ring for untap the second piston.

To do this, you have to introduce a steel wire, or a little wrench in the bleed screw hole of the principal piston, this wire must push the ring , you have to take it with little pliers.
Without scratching the cylinder surface.... (maybe the harder step...).

To extract the second piston, you have to reintroduce the main piston, it is supported on the secondary piston. can henceforth drive the secondary piston, which will come with the intermediate piston.

Of course the hardest part / remains complex extraction circlip retaining ...

Picture may follow...