Spyder restoration - long time coming

[WestonE]

Hi Peter

Good news and probably typical shake down issue after a full re-build. Probably time to slowly and systematically time to go over every nut and bolt. I did this for the Turin trip and did find an offender.

See used Nylocs and crushed spring washers as waste and life will be nicer.

Good luck

Eric   

[peteracs]

Hi

Betameeta 21 attended and nearly 400 miles added to the car. Only failure was on the way back I noticed the temp gauge was reading high and then noticed the heater which is normally on all the time, was cold. Stopping at a services and lifting the bonnet was not so pleasant as obvious water over a part of the top of the engine. After cooling and refilling the coolant, a pin hole due to corrosion was obvious in the top water rail. Luckily it was near the radiator top hose, so I loosened the jubilee clip and slid the hose further onto the rail to cover the pinhole. After that the temp behaved itself and the trip home was completed without incident thankfully.

Hopefully no lasting damage, though I shall test the compression, drain and refill the coolant and check for any oil and keep an eye on the oil fill cap and inside the fill hole for signs of water in case it has warped the head running with reduced coolant.

Lastly just a quick thanks to Alex for organising the weekend, I for one enjoyed it very much and was good to meet folk, some new and some I had met before.

Peter

[peteracs]

Hi

Drained all the coolant, also gave a flush out with hose and then air line to get as much of the old  out as possible. Then ground the area around the pinhole to get good metal. I do not have a welder, so used some metal epoxy on the area and finally some old cut down rubber hose and a couple of jubilee clips to act as a bandage. Filled back up with anti freeze deionised water mix and so far so good!

One thing which I knew about was that the engine was running rich, not horribly so, but enough to have a go at sorting. So took off the top of the carb and reduce the float height. Difficult to measure, so bit of a wet finger in the air guess. The engine now runs a lot smoother and revs more freely. I also attached the AEM air/fuel sensor and that was reading in the 13s now rather than the 12s previously. I will leave it for now and see how it goes after a long run.

Peter

[peteracs]

Also forgot to mention I checked the compression on each cylinder and all were in the 140-150 range which was as per the original before I fired up the engine earlier this year. Also no signs of water around the oil filler. So looks like I managed to avoid any warped head issues.

The only issue that has come up since I got back is the radiator fan switch now has a mind of its own, so have ordered a new one. Looks like these do have a habit of failing.

I ordered one with 92/87 switching, but see there are slightly lower switching temp versions. Anyone have a view on whether the lower ones are better for the U.K. weather?

Peter

[Neil-yaj396]

I'd say get the fan on at as low a temperature as possible. The radiator generally only needs help in slow traffic anyway.

I had a run of NOS switches failing, fortunately in the 'on' position. I'm not sure if age affects the part, but it would appear so.

[mangocrazy]

Hi Peter,

The Monte Hospital sells lower temp radiator fan switches (or they used to). I'd grab one while they're still trading...

Graham

[peteracs]

Graham

I have seen lower temp ones easily available, max temp 88. I will see how the new one I have ordered goes and see if I need to change to it.

Neil

Yes read your posts, hopefully will have more success.

Thanks

Peter

[SanRemo78]

Wire up an override switch! You can anticipate the engine getting hotter before the thermoswitch!
Guy

[Nigel]

Hi Peter,

My fan seldom runs, and I'd like to change that.
I've just removed the switch and there's no temp marked on it.
It's new, and I got it from a local factor, can't remember what I asked for!

So i've ordered this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334023270755?fits=Car+Make%3AFiat&hash=item4dc556a163:g:On8AAOSwGGNgtd5e

It's rated 88/83, and at only £7.99. I've used Parts in Motion before, no issues.

Regards
Nigel

[mangocrazy]

Graham

I have seen lower temp ones easily available, max temp 88. I will see how the new one I have ordered goes and see if I need to change to it.

Thanks

Peter

The MH fan switches are 82/77 degrees. These are the ones Guy used to recommend.

[peteracs]

Hi Graham

Whilst I can understand why a higher horsepower engine which will produce more heat would benefit from a lower turn on point, I think for non modified ones in a temperate climate which we have, the standard switch and radiator in good order is probably a good starting point.

Peter

[mangocrazy]

Hi Graham

Whilst I can understand why a higher horsepower engine which will produce more heat would benefit from a lower turn on point, I think for non modified ones in a temperate climate which we have, the standard switch and radiator in good order is probably a good starting point.

Peter

Yes, fully understand that point of view. I thought you were going for an uprated engine with GC cams etc., though? Or is that some time in the future?

[peteracs]

Hi Graham

The uprated engine is a future project and may not even be used in the Spider depending on how things progress.

Peter

[peteracs]

One problem found is one which others have mentioned to a greater or lesser degree. That is the time it takes to crank over before starting after leaving the car for one or more days.

I noticed on one of the cars at the Betameeta that it had a none return valve just before the carb inlet. I therefore installed one as an experiment and so far the results are encouraging, however time will tell just how effective it is.

Peter

[rossocorsa]

One problem found is one which others have mentioned to a greater or lesser degree. That is the time it takes to crank over before starting after leaving the car for one or more days.

I noticed on one of the cars at the Betameeta that it had a none return valve just before the carb inlet. I therefore installed one as an experiment and so far the results are encouraging, however time will tell just how effective it is.

Peter

Have to say that so long as it's not taking forever to start a bit of churning over to pull the oil up the system after it's been stood isn't such a bad thing.

[peteracs]

Hi Alan

The problem was it was taking a fair amount of time. Not sure if the float level being too high was also contributing to the problem somehow, though my impression was it was lack of fuel not over fuelling at startup.

Still not sure why I have such a lumpy tickover, tried to check for air leaks on the carb without success and a colourtune does not seem to show weak mixture either. The idle adjust screw however does have some effect, but I can virtually unscrew it without there being a problem which does not seem correct, more investigation needed.

Peter

[WestonE]

Hi Peter

Lumpy tick over is usually rich not lean. Lean is usually missing and spitting behaviour. All based on a hot engine where the choke plays no part. Colour tune strong blue visual check I have always found very helpful.

Eric 

[peteracs]

Hi Eric

Thanks, I will revisit my colourtune and see what it gives.

Peter

[peteracs]

Hi All

Not tried the colourtune yet, however have noticed a slight smell of petrol in the boot and thought it was from a can of petrol I was carrying as I did want to have a dodgy gauge leaving me stranded. However I was under the car yesterday and notice that I have a couple of weeps of fuel from the tank. Not serious, one at the front of the tank around the seam and one where the filler neck is welded into the tank. I did hope one may be related to the float/outlet seal, but sadly not as that is perfectly dry, so looks like a couple of areas of corrosion which will need addressing. Not the end of the world in that it is not leaking all over, but will need sorting soon.

I was under the car because I noticed that one of the clamps on the exhaust was missing (I have a flexi and small extension piece which use clamps). Oddly it looks like there may never have been one on there, ie I missed putting one on and has been surviving due to the tight fitment of the system so far. No harm done and new clamp installed.

Obviously you can always find another job that needs doing.

Peter

[WestonE]

Hi Peter

Shake down problems. The important part is carefully end to end checking expecting them. I am with Nigel's choice of temperature range on the radiator switch in 83 out 88 along with the lower range of his and Ian's thermostats. Running the car this little bit cooler gives safety margin which matters even with newer builds with no real impact on fuel economy.

I think 77 degrees is too cold for all but full on race use having experimented with a full variety of different stats and radiator switching temperature. Too cold can make engine wear worse and make fuel consumption higher. The radiator switches are all the common 22mm size and car builder solutions stock a range. I am so paranoid about fan switching I have ECU control, switch in radiator back up, manual switch override and a green light on the dash coming on the confirm the fans are on. I also use modern curved vein fans that shift far more air using far less power.

A lot of TCs have died from overheating over the years so I have gone to town on the whole cooling system in my build.

Eric