Replacing Cambelt

[speedyK]

The story continues!
Well, 4 years on and, with a belt tensioner purchased for my Spider 2000 a long time ago, I have now also managed to get hold of a new timing belt (from the UK, as no-one could find one here in Switzerland).

I had a look at the Haynes manual and this shows a special tool being used for aligning the timing markings and fitting the belt. For the 2000 engine, it is Lancia Tool No. 8801 3042
They say that the belt can be fitted without the tool but "great care needs to be taken". With the tool it "should present no problem".

However, they then go on to describe how they "had great difficulty in fitting the belt into the notches".

My old Fiat/Lancia mech can no longer do the work for me and I am going to entrust it to a garage who have worked on my Clio RS.
They are official Subaru and Toyota agents (they recently gave up their Renault agency because of the preposterous demands Renault made about showrooms and displays) but also work on older cars from various marks, including such as Jaguar, MG and even US vehicles.

Despite their competence as mechanics, they may never had a Lancia for a belt change before. I will leave the (English-language) Haynes manual for them, though they may not understand much of that. I think it may be wise to do a full translation for them, as sentences such as "Never move the camshaft drive wheels by more than 1 notch out of step with each other or the likelihood of series (presumably they mean "serious"?) damage being done to the engine by the valves lifting the pistons is very high indeed." sound rather important. Though perhaps that is obvious to an experienced mech even if they have never seen this engine type before.

Question:
Are there any tips, tricks "must do" or "do not" warnings for this procedure that even a competent operator who has not worked on this engine might not be aware of?
Please feel free to let me know your thoughts! Thanks!

[rossocorsa]

The belt is relatively easy to fit, the alignment tool  is unnecessary just make sure all is aligned including the aux drive (very important on a 2000) even I can do it! Make sure you change the tensioner as well, you can k just replace the bearing that presses into the centre no need to buy a complete assembly (which is in any case difficult to find for a 2000 version) buy a quality bearing such as skf

[HFStuart]

If all else fails they can fit the cambelt the old fashioned way by measuring full lift in the cams and working out the position they should be in at TDC. Sounds complicated but it really isn't, it's just methodical.

The only trick with the twin cam is to position the aux shaft so it doesn't interfere with crank. I've no idea why Haynes makes such a fuss about the cambelt.

[rossocorsa]

I seem to recall that the Haynes Manual had bad instructions for the belt, better to refer them to this

http://www.lancisti.net/forum/content.php?3-Lancia-Beta-timing-belt-change-procedure-tips

[speedyK]

Make sure you change the tensioner as well

As I mentioned in the first sentence, I have a new tensioner.

no need to buy a complete assembly (which is in any case difficult to find for a 2000 version) buy a quality bearing such as skf

I hope that the complete assembly I bought a couple of years ago is the correct one!

[speedyK]

I seem to recall that the Haynes Manual had bad instructions for the belt, better to refer them to this

http://www.lancisti.net/forum/content.php?3-Lancia-Beta-timing-belt-change-procedure-tips

Thanks for the link! 

[flex]

At the risk of embarrassing myself. I have been attempting this on a 2000ie. I have got as far as a new tensioner bearing (in the original housing) on there, but even with it fully slackened (to the point where I removed the spring and left the nut loose to check this), there just isn't enough space to put the new belt on. it is a 148tooth belt.
I put it around the crank (with all the pulleys still on), around the aux pulley, tensioner, exhaust and am left with about 6 teeth that it simply can't go over on the intake, even with a bit of rotating back an forth. the belt is tight everywhere, though i do have trouble getting it to sit properly on the aux, and I'm slowly loosing my sanity. The original belt is slightly closer but still not possible (just to check). the old one did require some effort to get off in the first place.

What am i missing, or should i just give up?
Cheers
Felix

[rossocorsa]

I suspect you just have a bit of slack on the belt in some parts of the belt run, there's a bit of a knack to getting belts on. If you are having trouble keeping the belt really taught between pulleys try using cable ties to hold the belt on each pulley. Assuming it's the  correct belt it really well go on, make sure tensioner is completely backed off.

[flex]

I suspect you just have a bit of slack on the belt in some parts of the belt run, there's a bit of a knack to getting belts on. If you are having trouble keeping the belt really taught between pulleys try using cable ties to hold the belt on each pulley. Assuming it's the  correct belt it really well go on, make sure tensioner is completely backed off.

I think my problem is at the bottom, crank to aux pulley, where it is largely hidden behind the v belt pulleys. I will try again when i'm feeling competent!

[flex]

I suspect you just have a bit of slack on the belt in some parts of the belt run, there's a bit of a knack to getting belts on. If you are having trouble keeping the belt really taught between pulleys try using cable ties to hold the belt on each pulley. Assuming it's the  correct belt it really well go on, make sure tensioner is completely backed off.

I think my problem is at the bottom, crank to aux pulley, where it is largely hidden behind the v belt pulleys. I will try again when i'm feeling competent!

To let you know it was all ok in the end. replaced and running. The tensioner was pushed to what felt like a hard stop but with some careful leverage against the aux pulley, it went far enough to get the belt on.

In the end I used this method, as opposed to finishing on the intake cam:

Fully slacken off tensioner (as above)
Get belt around crank pulley and on teeth properly (hard to see with the  v belt pulleys in the way)
Pull tight across right hand side of aux pulley
Pull tight across intake cam pulley: if there is slack in the run to the aux, take up by slightly adjusting cam anticlockwise. hold in place
Put around exhaust cam pulley, as above take up any slack by turning pulley anti clockwise slightly. now hold belt in place here at around 10 o clock
Now working from the left hand side of the crank, make sure there is no slack to the left of the aux pulley (only a few teeth touch here, and access is hard with the v belt pulleys in the way)
Most of the slack is either now side of the tensioner, and the belt will just about go over it.
Release tensioner, turn over, check alignment. repeat this step until belt is properly tensioned.
To double check turn it over by hand to check the belt isn't wandering.

This is easier with a helper to hold the belt on the exhaust cam while you fit it over the tensioner, also helps to have flexible hands as you are working between the inner wing and tensioner. As far as fiddling with the cams, i aimed to venture no more than half a tooth from where they started, though it helps in insuring you get the belt on properly, then take up the slack, rather than trying to put it on fully tight.

Painted marks are useful to supplement the official marks, and pictures are great for checking that marks are lined up as before.

Probably not the right method: please correct me, but it hasn't broken yet!

I used a gates 5022 belt and a 3205A-2RS1TN9/MT33 SKF Double Row Angular Contact Bearing 25x52x20.6mm for the tensioner bearing
Cheers

[Leo HPE 1979]

http://www.martinwillems-webshop.nl/shop/motor_10
Here You can buy a complete new tensionrol for euro 27,50

[rossocorsa]

http://www.martinwillems-webshop.nl/shop/motor_10
Here You can buy a complete new tensionrol for euro 27,50

I think this is only for Fiat style twin cams for instance 124, mirafiori or beta montecarlo

[flex]

http://www.martinwillems-webshop.nl/shop/motor_10
Here You can buy a complete new tensionrol for euro 27,50

I think this is only for Fiat style twin cams for instance 124, mirafiori or beta montecarlo

Indeed. I had bought a QH belt kit QBK446 (Tensioner bearing, belt), described as suitable for the Beta. It came with the Fiat style bearing. I believe you can use one but you need the fiat tensioner plate to to use it (I have read this somewhere, but don't quote me on it) It certainly won't work with the beta tensioner plate. in picture: beta tensioner plate on left, standard beta tensioner bearing and pulley and fiat style one peice bearing/pulley on right.

If you have a the type i have (held in with circlip), you need something like the SKF bearing (around £30)