And So It Begins....

[WestonE]

Amazing work and I am intrigued by how you will be controlling the Electric actuators. On the Casing Drain the Monte box I started with was also a factory AC unit. This did not save me from the wet foot and in car cold shower when I cam e to use it on a trip to Turin. The larger drain stopped all that. I hope you have a better experience than I had by keeping the standard drain!

[SanRemo78]

Thanks Eric - I'm hoping that the switches I bought for the project will work exactly like a Beta window lift switch. Two middle feeds go to the actuator, there's a positive supply to top left and bottom right and earths to top right and bottom left. Closing the switches to the up position sends power on one side and earths the other and vice versa in the down position. Each actuator takes circa 5 seconds to extend or close and there's a limit switch built in to stop it over extending or overloading.

If the switches don't work like that I'm down to having a couple of relays and some head scratching to work out the circuits. It's not rocket science I hope.....

And if I do end up with a flood I can just remove the centre console, hacksaw the spigot off, enlarge the drain hole and bond on a larger tube...

Guy

[Nigel]

I'm chuffed that my car bits could be a part of your
amazing build!
Looking forward to seeing it sometime.

N.

[SanRemo78]

I hope so too Nigel. I went to see Carl today and check on the progress of his Facebook Beta. He's a braver man than me! In the spirit of this community he's getting a few of my spare spares that have mainly been donated to me or saved from being scrapped! So far it's a pair of rear windows, a couple of rear corner trims and clips, some S1 mirror glasses and a mirror stem. Identified and to be collected/delivered next time are my original radiator with fan & shroud and a pair of later series front wings that will provide some repair panels or be repaired and used instead, sadly they're the later overlap ones rather than the bolted butt joints.

Carl will need a few more parts... Back panel and boot lid stainless trims, a bonnet, S1/S2FL seats, probably in red velour, a bonnet, headliner for a 1600 (wish I'd kept my scrap pattern one!). He's got a black carpet but could do with a brown one (plus maybe the o/s stainless edge trim) and a boot carpet. Sun visors too. Probably a left door card and manual window winder. There'll be lots more to restore this car before it gets it's first ever MOT!

Guy

[Ferrit]

I could see the "spirit of this community" from this forum, half the reason for buying a Beta

[peteracs]

Hi Guy

I should be able to help with some of those parts.

Peter

[SanRemo78]

Thanks Peter, I also realized that he'll need the radiator shrouds and I've got some of them used/good enough or brand new but I suspect Carl can resurrect my good enough ones and leave the new old stock ones for someone doing a silly level build...

[SanRemo78]

This morning I bench rigged the fans and the three position switch to test it and it all worked as expected (and hoped!) with a good flow of air out of the box. I wonder how good it will be in the car? I may find out later! The top of the box has also been draught excluded so the last job is to complete the actuator wiring and that's brought me to a temporary stop.

The switches I bought don't work like a Beta window switch which is pain in one way but a blessing in another as it means wiring them with the loads being taken through relays instead. And that's what I'll have to do for the window motors too. So, wiring instructions say I need to get two changeover relays per actuator. Each actuator will be connected to pin 30, terminals 87a and 85 are grounds and terminals 87 is power. I then have to connect pin 86 on each relay to the two power feeds from the switch and it ought to work.

If the instructions are right.

I feel the need to check a relay internal diagram to get my head around this one and bench test it. I also need to exercise the credit card (again) to buy eight micro changeover relays and bases and mount these somewhere suitable on the side of the air box with leads long enough to reach the centre console where they'll all be living!

[SanRemo78]

And diagram drawn and understood.

With the switch in the middle (off) position no power flows to either relay so both actuator wires on terminals 30 are grounded.

With the switch is pressed to the up position power flows to the first relay switching terminal 87a (earth) to terminal 87 (positive battery) sending current to the actuator via pin 30 with the other actuator wire remaining grounded through pins 30 and 87a on the second relay. This causes the actuator to extend.

With the switch pressed to the down position nothing moves on the first relay so pin 30 remains earthed for the actuator and pin 30 on the second relay becomes live via pin 87. The actuator then retracts.

Each of the actuators takes 5-7 seconds to make the full extension so there's plenty of control over positioning.

So now I'm sat here twiddling thumbs waiting for the postman to deliver £30's worth of micro relays and holders which clip together to form a neat row that I'll hide away never to be seen again. But somewhere accessible just in case I need to get at them!

[WestonE]

If you get stuck with this Tim Mountain in the Monte Consortium will save you. He built me an electronic control box when we were heading for far too many relays.

[SanRemo78]

Thanks Eric, I'm fairly confident I've sorted the wiring out for this and a dozen micro relays hidden on the front half of the center console underneath the air box is the solution for the actuators and the power windows too. The actuators have very small gauge wires so the loom can be small. The windows are going to need a heavier wire and higher amp relays.

Cheers
Guy

[peteracs]

Hi Guy

Hard for me to visualise this, but just wondered if a dual double throw switch might also work?

I had a play with an actuator for the tilting headlights on the HPE (to replace the original dead auto system) and that worked fine for me.

Peter

[SanRemo78]

A dual double throw switch might work Peter but as I've now got everything I need for the install bar the relays and a little wire (NEC Shopping list) It's sorted. I'll bring a pencil and sketch the diagram for you, it's remarkable simple with two relays and it'll stop all the current going through the switch for the windows in due course. The last part of this install will be cable routing and butchering the upper half of the centre console to accommodate five rocker switches and a heater fan knob!

[lancialulu]

A dual double throw switch might work Peter but as I've now got everything I need for the install bar the relays and a little wire (NEC Shopping list) It's sorted. I'll bring a pencil and sketch the diagram for you, it's remarkable simple with two relays and it'll stop all the current going through the switch for the windows in due course. The last part of this install will be cable routing and butchering the upper half of the centre console to accommodate five rocker switches and a heater fan knob!

I think the window motors take c 10A so gauge the wire accordingly and a fused direct feed from the battery is recommended.....

[SanRemo78]

Thanks Tim, the intention for the window motors is to double switchover relay it the same way as the actuators, this will take the loads away from the switches. I'll make sure the wiring is up to the amperage needed.
Cheers
Guy

[SanRemo78]

Here's a thought for you guys with a running car and a working heater fan......

There's a flap in the box that blanks off the heater core from the airflow from the fan and directs it underneath the heater matrix into the distribution system. Is the airflow stronger with the blanking plate letting air through the matrix or underneath it?

[SanRemo78]

And why is he asking I hear you all say? Well, it's about symmetry on the controls. I will be having the switches for the four actuators on the middle console where the cigar lighter resides. I also want to put the switch for the air con there as well as the rotary fan switch. So, ideally two switches, rotary switch and two switches making 5 for neatness and symmetry. Except I've got four actuators with four switches and the rotary fan switch and the air con switch making 6.

But last night there was a light bulb moment! I realised that if I don't want to heat the interior the flap should be covering the matrix. And the heater valve should be shut too. And all the air should be forced under the matrix. You see where I'm going with this? Use one switch to open and close the flap and open and close the heater valve! Three actuator switches for four actuators plus the rotary fan switch and the air con switch = 5 and there's my neat symmetry.

Right - off to the garage to jury rig it and see if the actuators I want to act in tandem move the same distance at the same speed....

[Ferrit]

when I pull my heater out \i was wondering if I could do away with the matrix and use an electric heater, just like would be used in an EV?  I am also so tempted to bypass it, but then its not leaking at the moment, and am not sure it is even working

[WestonE]

On a damp start with Steamed up windows you will be wanting the heater. Once the Matrix has been de-scaled or replaced and a working control tap installed they do the job on the S2FL well enough. Of course over 40 years of use make for a noisy fan and when the plastic heater tap fails it is like a bee sting on your Clutch foot. But that is classic motoring! The Beta unit is far better than the Montecarlo wheezing old man or cannot hear yourself think approach.

[SanRemo78]

Hmmm. Electrically a jury rigged connection works just fine with both actuators moving full distance in nearly the same time. Before I called it job done and put the assembly in the car I thought I'd do one last check of the operation of the valve.

Blowing into the top pipe on the matrix with the valve open, no issues. Close the valve and I could still blow through it. Blowing through the valve in the closed position? Tried that and I could, so, the new valve doesn't seat/close fully. I think it's time for a rethink and maybe another type of valve that I can control with the actuator and fully close. Next research is into water flow direction, I assume it comes from the cylinder head into the top pipe on the matrix and out the bottom pipe and through the valve?

Bugger.