Wiring diagram for 2 litre ie HPE

[Jeff]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a wiring diagram for a 2 litre injection HPE? It's C-reg, manual.

I'm in Woking.

[hutch6610]

O wow smillies! sorry i just think they are funny.
BetaBoyz ..... you are spoiling us! (said in a bad French accent)

Ahem yes ...wiring diagram - easiest place to find such an item is in the Haynes manual but will not cover fuel injection or volumex.
Wiring hardly changed from 1978 on, they just added on a few extra bits, just look at the latest you can find in the manual and the wire colours do match up.

[Jeff]

Aah, right, thanks for the reply. That's why I can't lay my hands on anything! Not Lancia's strongpoint, electrics, is it!

[HFStuart]

I think they're avaiable to download from the Lancisti.net site

[MattNoVAT]

I have a stack of Lancia Beta Workshop and technical specification manuals, covering all S1 & S2 cars.  I've just had a quick look and there are wiring schematics for UK spec cars in some of them.

Your welcome to have a look through and if you find what you need then feel free to use them.

I did not think about them until today and pulled them out, I should have referred to these when looking at my sunvisor issue!  D'oh!

[Jeff]

Hi Matt, Thanks for that, when you get a chance could you see if there is anything on the diagram for the fuel pump cct - no rush, it's for someone else's 1985 HPEie, mine's a Coupe carb version. I suspect they didn't update the ccts, but if there is something I'd be pleased to come and have a look and maybe get a print.
This one in question doesn't energise the pump even when turning over and it's not clear if the wiring is correct.

[hutch6610]

Fuel pump wiring fault? - you should have said so.

If the fuel pump is not "powered up" on cranking over then have a look at the round multi plug above the gearbox just under the distributor - you will have to remove the rubber coupling to the airfilter.
Should be an extra red/black striped wire coming out of it that connects to a plastic sheathed spade connection, this connects to the starter motor circuit (ignore the yellow wire) - when you apply power to start, it sends a signal to the relay and energizes the fuel pump.
Put the ignition on and push the flap open in the airflow meter and you will get an audible click from the relays opposite and hear the pump run - this is just to show you what to expect when you do the next bit below.
 
Unplug the red/black wire, jump a wire to the female side (side that goes toward the bulkhead) from the positive on the battery and you should hear a click from the injection relays as before and the pump should turn.

The wire connection could be corroded, snapped off, unplugged or somebody in the past has had starter motor trouble so runs a new wire to the starter motor usually up and over the drivers side of the engine bay and cuts off the old original wire disabling this (hardly "Italian Electrics")
You then end up with the problem you describe.

[Jeff]

Thanks for your reply Hutch, looks very promising because guess what...the starter motor has just been replaced so I am highly suspicious. This is on a car that doesn't belong to me, but is on my drive (don't ask - it's a long story). The owner in question is Mike Darrieulat (aah yes, definately don't ask) who should know about this, but he did the starter motor, so if this does turn out to be the problem I shall get great mileage out of the 'should have known better' rant .

For those of you who don't know who MD is he is an old Lancia specialist with a lot of experience and worth asking when trying to source parts or seeking advice. Mind you, even he couldn't replace the starter, he had the original re-wound, so that would indicate repalcements are getting rare.

I will report back if and when the problem is resolved...and I get my drive back.

[hutch6610]

Hello Jeff
Sent you a wiring diagram for the injection system, i will post a copy here on the forum when i learn how!
I have the wiring diagram for the Digiplex as well - its actually for a Fiat Croma but the wiring is exactly the same.

Just to elaborate a bit on the wiring;
If you look down the inner wing of the timing belt side in the corner where the clutch/brake remote linkage is, you will also see (should) a fairly thick grey wire with a shrouded black spade connector - this actually goes through the bulkhead and runs to the fuel pump.
You can disconnect this and run a live to see if the wiring is alright leading to the pump.
Check also the fuse holder coming from the black injection system relay (yellow wire) that is bolted to the bracket on the suspension turret -  the fuse could be blown or corroded.

Just for anyone who has an injection Beta who wants to know how the basic system works;

The airflow meter has a switch built in so that when the engine is running and the vacuum opens the flap, the circuit is complete and the pump will run so long as the engine does, open the flap in the airflow meter to pressurise the system after any work is done where it has been drained down or you have been unlucky enough to run out of petrol and secondly to check that the pump is working.
Not only that, it saves on your starter motor and battery!

To start from cold (to get the pressure up in the system) power from the starter bypasses the switch in the airflow meter on cranking from the ignition.
Older Bosch systems (K-jetronic) had a fuel accumulator that stored fuel under pressure - modern cars have a timer that pressurises the system by running the pump for about three seconds on turning the ignition on.

Hope you get your drive back soon.

[Jeff]

Many thanks again Hutch, very useful. (Waiting for the ice to clear before I go back on the case).
I am so grateful for this inside info, I also run a Scorpio Cosworth (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/) and the website for those is similar to what we now have here, and it proves utterly invaluable. Members on that one can contribute voluntary donations via Paypal to help fund it and keep it going, which I think would be a good thing here if it secures the existance of the site. (I send a fiver a month to the Scorp site and use it regularly as the car is horrendously complex in comparison to the good ole Beta koop!)
Anyway, thanks again, much appreciated...btw what is your background, are you an ex-Lancia technician or something?

[hutch6610]

Scorpio Cosworth! ... very Interesting!
Have seen the website a few years back when i was looking for a heater matrix for a customer, now friends 2.9 Scorpio.
I had the "pleasure" of removing the dashboard to get at the heater to remove said matrix  - not as bad as it sounds - Ford had told him something in the region of £900.00.

He had bought the car on impulse and his son in-law cooked the engine (part of no three piston crown had melted and disappeared down the exhaust) not really his fault, it had been loosing water from the pump in the past and the previous owner had just kept topping it up with plain water which screwed the alloy inlet manifold, radiator, matrix and eventually the engine.
The car was loosing water but he could not find where? It turned out it had been going into the block.

Very complicated wiring to say the least behind that dash, enough wire for three Beta's!
Bought the matrix from Serck Intertruck for £25.00 - have had some radiators reconditioned and upgraded by them as well.

Lancia technician? ........ no not me, when i had the chance to get married, have kids, get a mortgage, etc, etc, i chose to be a sad git and dedicated my life to the "Art Of Italian Cars", been doing Alfasuds and Betas since i was seventeen.
Few Fiats thrown in for good measure.
Learned by dismantling them and putting them back together - you can only learn so much theory.


 

[Jeff]

Update on the story.
Fiddled about with the wiring at the connector block and established that the relay was working by pushing the air flap, and hey presto fuel flowed, man, it flowed! So connected all the unions back up again and it started on the 3rd pull. The car's only done 35k miles so it ran quite sweetly and I'm very happy again. So in the end it must have been a dodgy connection on the connector, as simple as that.

Thanks for your help and happy Lancia-ing...