beta race sump any ideas?

[75coupe]

Dear All,

I have successfully raced a beta coupe for several years, and coped with the dreaded Beta oil surge on right hand corners with the aid of baffles, trap doors, windage tray and accusump.

My latest Guy Croft full race engine though seems to have tested the limits of this system and I managed to spin no.2 big end bearing at 8500rpm in 3rd gear.....Video playback revealed I had 47psi oil pressure at this point, after coming out of a long right hand corner. my low pressure warning light doesn't come on until 30 psi....Normally it would be at 70-80 psi at this rpm. the accusump could no longer keep up as it had emptied all 2 quarts of oil into the engine, most of which ended up in the catch tank....

Luckily it did not throw a rod as I felt it momentarily lose power and backed off straight away, but still required a new crank and resized rod.

I am all out of ideas for trying to stick with a wet sump now, and before I go and spend my kids inheritance on a dry sump system, wondered if anyone else out there had had any success?

[HFStuart]

What sump were you using ? Have you seen Guys newer design? It's in the new book if no.

I have this fitted and though I don't generate anything like the g you do it does get chucked about and no sign of surge at all.

[thecolonel]

If you're hitting corners that hard
I think the only answer is a dry sump.

[75coupe]

Hi Stuart

I tried a similar setup to Guys new design but it did not make much difference. From what I can tell only the top windage tray is different have not seen what arrangement the gate is on this setup.

I think dry sump may be the only way, or increased oil capacity/reduce engine RPM, the volume of oil being pumped at 8500rpm is obviously too great and empties the sump pretty quickly!! On track I am now using a lower gear and more rpm, engine rarely drops below 5-6K!!

Thanks for the replies

Anyone know where I can obtain a cheap dry sump pump....

[Jasonkennedy]

8,500 yeeks, I only take my race Beta to 7,200,  which is why I guess the baffled sump and accusump have been sufficient. I spoke to Pace Products about a dry sump set up for my Fiat Coupe but it wasn't just the cost of the pump but the design and build of the sump pan that made it too costly for me to consider.

[peteracs]

Hi

Maybe a silly couple of questions, but is it not possible to increase the size of the sump pan to allow a greater amount of oil to be used and or reduce the pump rate of oil per rpm given you are mainly using high revs?

This would probably be a whole lot cheaper than dry sump solution and keep the kids on side....

Peter

[WestonE]

Ian

A larger 4 Quart Accusump with a rev limit down to 8000 RPM is probably the most cost effective as it will hold the pressure for longer. But only for short periods with recovery time needed before the next long high G corner.

Eric

[rossocorsa]

Hi

Maybe a silly couple of questions, but is it not possible to increase the size of the sump pan to allow a greater amount of oil to be used and or reduce the pump rate of oil per rpm given you are mainly using high revs?

This would probably be a whole lot cheaper than dry sump solution and keep the kids on side....

Peter

Not much space on a beta it's compromised by the transverse layout, rwd cars are a lot easier

[LanciaDave]

I wonder if the Montecarlo pump and pan could be used. I know mine holds almost twice as much as the HPE. The larger accusump is also a good suggestion. I would suggest you contact Guy Croft, let him know the set-up you are using, what your issue was, and then see what he recommends. This really is in his wheelhouse and he is the expert. Let us know what you figure out.

Dave

[rossocorsa]

Space on a fwd beta is restricted by the subframe

[75coupe]

Gents thanks for the replies. Engine rebuilt with smaller 38mm chokes to try to increase low down torque and rev limit of 7500 RPM for now.

My next idea is this, to try a swinging oil pickup. I have ordered one from the U.S and will see if it will work.

[75coupe]

Well dyno tuned the car with 38mm chokes and lost 7BHP top end but gained a heap of low down torque.

Now putting out 148 BHP at the wheels and with 7700rpm limit it survived 44 laps of Lakeside Park easily with oil pressure never below 60psi!

Swinging pickup arrived so now to try & fit it!!

[archigraphe]

Hello, do you have more information with this sump?

Thank you.