Beta Spider 2000 engine rebuild/refurb

[mangocrazy]

The pump is actually leaking from the body, not the seal. Anyway, pump and bottle are coming back to the UK with me for further examination. Didn't know you spoke Dutch?

But the elephant in the room is the mis-timed ignition. I need to take my bravery pills and get stuck in to it...

[mangocrazy]

OK, so I've taken the first steps, lined up some marks, checked the exhauist cam position on No. 1 cylinder and taken some photos. And perused (for the umpteenth time) the write up by Ian (75coupe) on static ignition timing. This one: http://www.lanciabeta.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2099.0

The photos (hopefully) show that #1 exhaust cam is on the closing stroke, a tippexed line on the crank pulley lines up with one of the marks on the cam belt cover and the distributor with the cap off. The HT lead for no 4 cylinder plugs into the distributor cap pretty much 180 degrees opposite where the rotor arm is pointing to. I assume this is significant.

All advice gratefully received and happy to take further photos if you tell me what to point the camera at.

[mangocrazy]

Well, do I start with the good news or the bad news? Good news first, I guess.

Following a telephone conversation with Nigel yesterday evening I resolved to swallow my fears and get stuck into lining the distributor up correctly. I loosened off the 13mm bolt holding the forked clamp in place, and lifted and wiggled the distributor body and rotor arm until I had it where I wanted (rotor arm making initial contact with the HT lead for cylinder #4). After numerous clicks, the starter motor eventually caught and within a couple of revolutions the engine started and was off and running. Woo and hoo...!

But that was as good as it got, unfortunately. The engine sounded rougher by the second, there was a distinct exhaust blow noise (and this was after I'd had custom copper gaskets fabricated) and when I peered underneath the engine there was a steady drip drip of oil falling off the diff housing.

I honestly feel like I'm getting to the end of my tether. It's just one roadblock after another. I'll regroup and try and do some more investigation tomorrow, but right now I've really just about had enough. It's not helped by the van having a suspected faulty head gasket (or warped/cracked head) and we've got an 800 mile drive back on Friday. Plus it's getting harder to select 5th/reverse gears on the van as well.

[WestonE]

Hi Graham,

We all have these moments, but they are moments that pass. Get the timing light on it and check. The exhaust gaskets get an exhaust paste treat and re assemble. First find the oil leak then decide on the level of swearing/ re-work, but you might as well get the engine running well before fixing it unless it is epic.

Chin up Gin in!

Eric

[mangocrazy]

Hi Eric.

Thanks for the 'chin up!' message of encouragement. Unfortunately (as usual) time accelerates as you're coming to the end of a stay abroad and loading the van and trying to tidy up last minute 'must do' jobs took precedence. On the plus side the van made it home in one piece and can now go into a local VW specialist to get properly checked out.

The Spider will be a problem for future Graham to solve... 

G

[Ferrit]

As well as confusing myself further with crank pulley marks, I was also able to trial fit various modifications I've made to the alternator mountings. I'm happy to say it all seemed to work out well. Starting from the top, the fitting that attaches to the stamped metal top mount that in turn mounts to the cambox has always been a bit iffy and so I resolved to get a solid and reliable fitting made up. Rubber mounts age, crack and eventually fall apart, so for the material I chose Acetal, an engineering plastic. I've had bits made from it for other (motorbike-related) applications, and I've seen how well it puts up with general abuse.

So I got my tame engineering firm in Sheffield to turn me up a pair of inserts from a piece of Acetal rod I have. The inserts are stepped with the smaller diameter being a snug push fit into the mounting bar. What you can't see is the piece of 10mm o.d./8mm i.d. stainless tube that sits inside the inserts and the washer next to the nut. The piece of rod is sized to be fractionally shorter than the overall width of inserts, adjusting/mounting bar and washer, so that the whole assembly can be nipped up tight without applying too much force to te inserts.

Next down is the top mount on the alternator, which bolts up to the bottom of the mounting bar and provides belt adjustment. All I really needed to do here was to find an M10 bolt of te correct length and with the correct head size to locate in the alternator housing. And a nyloc nut and washer to suit of course.

I love this solution and your blog.  I actually discovered to on Revtothelimit looking for something else

One day I want a cool engine build :-)

[mangocrazy]

As well as confusing myself further with crank pulley marks, I was also able to trial fit various modifications I've made to the alternator mountings. I'm happy to say it all seemed to work out well. Starting from the top, the fitting that attaches to the stamped metal top mount that in turn mounts to the cambox has always been a bit iffy and so I resolved to get a solid and reliable fitting made up. Rubber mounts age, crack and eventually fall apart, so for the material I chose Acetal, an engineering plastic. I've had bits made from it for other (motorbike-related) applications, and I've seen how well it puts up with general abuse.

So I got my tame engineering firm in Sheffield to turn me up a pair of inserts from a piece of Acetal rod I have. The inserts are stepped with the smaller diameter being a snug push fit into the mounting bar. What you can't see is the piece of 10mm o.d./8mm i.d. stainless tube that sits inside the inserts and the washer next to the nut. The piece of rod is sized to be fractionally shorter than the overall width of inserts, adjusting/mounting bar and washer, so that the whole assembly can be nipped up tight without applying too much force to te inserts.

Next down is the top mount on the alternator, which bolts up to the bottom of the mounting bar and provides belt adjustment. All I really needed to do here was to find an M10 bolt of te correct length and with the correct head size to locate in the alternator housing. And a nyloc nut and washer to suit of course.

I love this solution and your blog.  I actually discovered to on Revtothelimit looking for something else

One day I want a cool engine build :-)

Well hello to another denizen of Revtothelimit! I spend more time on there than I do on here, mainly because the motorcycles in my life are less problematic and more easily fixed than my Beta. The most recent setback made me not even want to look at the car for months, but I think I've recovered from that and am formulating A Plan.

The solution should have been obvious to me for ages, but it didn't fit with my overall plan for the rebuild/refurb, so I discounted it. Anyway, I will be heading back down to France (where the car is) in April and I will be taking with me the lovingly rebuilt engine that's been sitting on a dolly in my living room for way too long. It will be sharing space in my van with a shower tray, a dozen or so sheets of tile backer board, house-bothering tools, my cat Wilko, my builder mate Andy and loads of other paraphernalia. Space will be at a premium (unsurprisingly).

This really is the last throw of the dice. If the rebuilt engine doesn't play nice all bets are off. Hopefully it won't come to that...

[peteracs]

And there I was thinking you had given up.......!

Long time since we had a post, hope this will be more successful than previous visits.

Peter

[mangocrazy]

To be honest, I had almost given up, but every time I return to the house in France the Beta is waiting there, reproachfully, for me. So I have to do something to move this thing forwards and fitting the rebuilt engine is the obvious choice. It's just a shame it's taken me so long to reach this conclusion.

However it may be more easily said than done. Loading the engine on a dolly into the van will not be without its difficulties, and unloading it in France is going to be even more problematic, as I live on a steep hill. But you have to deal with problems as you meet them...

[peteracs]

I shall look forward to the posts in April....!!!

[Ferrit]

What was the rebuilt engine originally built for?

Not a biker anymore, but love bikes.  When I finish my workshop and Beta a bike restoration might be on the cards as a winter project

Good luck for Spring then

[mangocrazy]

What was the rebuilt engine originally built for?

Not a biker anymore, but love bikes.  When I finish my workshop and Beta a bike restoration might be on the cards as a winter project

Good luck for Spring then

It's a long story, and the story is told in excruciating detail in a different thread but, long story short, a water pump replacement by an incompetent garagiste in France turned into 7 out of 8 valves bent and a cream-crackered motor. I took the motor back to the UK and had it totally refurbished. While that was being done I thought it would be a good idea to fit a spare engine I had, so I could still use the car. The spare engine turned out to be a duffer with a blown head gasket and even after having the head skimmed and re-worked it was still a duffer.

So I'll be taking the original (refurbished) engine back to France when I return for another bout of house-bothering in April. Whether or not it actually gets fitted depends on how well the house-bothering goes, but at least the engine will be close to its eventual destination and not a thousand miles away in  my living room.

There's no such thing as an ex-biker, just one who's having a bit of time off...   

[peteracs]

What was the rebuilt engine originally built for?

I did chuckle a bit when I saw your question, it has been a saga and I feel for Graham.....

Peter

[Ferrit]

Hi G

Did you ever do this?  I am thinking on doing the same, plus relocate the extra relay to a box on the n/s inner wing from the current position on the bulkhead.  Everythignworks but its all bit brittle and would be a good start/tick something off as its quite self contained.  My wiring is as Peter's wiring diagram

M

[mangocrazy]

Hi Mark,

No, I never did get round to it (as with so many other things). The Plan (which will doubtless change due to circumstances) is to take the refurbished motor down to France in my van, fit it and then run the engine in before driving the car back to the UK, where I have a large number of tthings to do to it, not least of which will be to have a serious look at the underside to check for and deal with any corrosion that's lurking.

But a number of things need to go right for that plan to work - the refurb engine install has to go smoothly, the car will need a French MoT (Controle Technique) and I will need to build up confidence in the car before I drive back to the UK.

So at the moment it's tiny steps...

Graham

[peteracs]

Hi Graham

I am keeping my fingers crossed as this has been one long saga with many bad bits of bad luck.

Peter

[mangocrazy]

Part of the planning for this engine transfer has been to attach various handles to the dolly which houses the engine so that multiple pairs of hands can guide it. Fortunately there is an excellent old-school ironmonger less than a mile away from us in Sheffield, so all the fittings were easily obtained. I'm trying not to take any chances...

[mangocrazy]

So the first part of The Plan has been executed. The engine and gearbox are on the dolly, in the van and secured. Now all I have to do is fit all the other stuff around it. And there's a lot of stuff to take with me, so some creative packing will need to be employed...

[Ferrit]

That is a thing of beauty 

[mangocrazy]

That is a thing of beauty 

Thanks. It will look even better when it's installed in the car, I think. But I don't honestly know when that will be - we have a lot of house-bothering to do before I can turn my attention to the car. At least the engine will be adjacent to the car, rather than 1000 miles away from it...