Early HPE restoration

[peteracs]

Hi Ian

That may very well be the answer. I may have been unlucky with them this time and on my Spider I bought two separately, one was as original and I could fit the ‘dust’ cover from the the old CV, but the other had to be modified. I have also seen on here at least one other person who has had this issue.

I think that there are/were a mix of different manufacturers with varying degrees of compatibility….

It would be useful to know of any part nos which are correct.

Peter

[SanRemo78]

I might have to go through this process soon. Once Stratos2 has gone to it's next owner then Beta7 will be dragged into the garage for further dismemberment. Removal of the remains of the drivetrain are high on the priority list with the driveshafts to be overhauled and stored. I'm not expecting to have to replace any of the CV joints, just a complete disassembly, clean, regrease and reassemble with new boots/clips. This (hope) is based on 40 years experience of Beta direvshafts! The donor Car for Stratos1 was a 1978 Beta Coupe whose driveshafts had done 80k (I think) and were overhauled and have now done another 100k in a car that puts a lot more strain on them. (It will spin it's back wheels courtesy of 220hp but it's breaking the traction of 345 width rubber with the benefit of extra grip from weight transfer).

In all that time I've stripped and regressed the assemblies twice and fitted new boots and only had one failure of an inner joint.

But I'm hoping Beta7's CV's will still be strong for a while yet!

Guy

[peteracs]

Hi Guy

Guess I am just over cautious and with the history of them being unknown, replacing is simpler or at least that was the theory. The upside is that they are one of the cheaper parts.

I did a quick Google and sure enough these parts are listed for a whole bunch of Lancia and others including later Lancia such as Them etc. No experience of the later hubs, but can only guess they have different gaps to the hub.

Peter

[WestonE]

Hi Guy

I think you are right in most cases although my Volumetrico Supercharged Montecarlo needed replacements as they developed obvious slop and shunt. I built up new ones for the VX Beta Spyder, but where I got them from is lost in the sands of time!

Eric

[squiglyzigly]

Hi Guy

Guess I am just over cautious and with the history of them being unknown, replacing is simpler or at least that was the theory. The upside is that they are one of the cheaper parts.

I did a quick Google and sure enough these parts are listed for a whole bunch of Lancia and others including later Lancia such as Them etc. No experience of the later hubs, but can only guess they have different gaps to the hub.

Peter

Hi Peter,
It’s been a long time since I changed a wheel bearing on a Thema but I think the bearings are secured in the hub with a snap ring instead of the castellated threaded ring that the Beta uses. For this reason there is more space for a larger shoulder on the CV joint and this is why they foul in a Beta.

Cheers
Ian

[peteracs]

Hi Ian

That makes sense.

Thanks for that

Peter

[peteracs]

Unlike Guy, they are obviously more hardy in Formby, I have been waiting for the temp to improve. Spent a good portion of today in the garage starting the big strip down of the IE engine from the Coupe. It is pretty grubby on the outside, but so far having removed the ancillaries, inlet manifold, timing belt, pulleys and water rails, it is looking fairly solid so hoping the internals are in usable condition, especially the block and crank.

I also managed to remove the bearing from the front hubs.

Peter

[peteracs]

As a bit of an aside, I have stripped out the seat mechanisms from the Coupe. These are from around 82 and as usual the fabric is worn and most likely mouse attacked. The interesting bit is that the mechanism is pretty much the same as the seats in my 76 HPE which was a pleasant surprise as it gives me some spare parts I was not expecting as the seats are very different to look at.


Peter

[SanRemo78]

What sort of fabric is it Peter? The blue/grey by any chance? If you don't need it please save it for me - whilst mine is okay I'd like to be able to experiment with putting a cover through the washing machine to see if it shrinks! Or even gets cleaner!

On the subject of seat mechanisms - i have yet to attack mine, neither backrest flips and I don't think the backrest adjustor knobs work either!

Despite living a few miles from Formby all my life on moving here I became aware of a phenomenon know as the Formby Bubble - it seems that this area is well known for being very mild, we didn't have any snow here despite towns 2 miles away having a good covering recently! The only slight negatives are it's windy and, at night, you can hear the container ships engines as they chug away down the Mersey Channel!

Guy

[Nigel]

Guy,
I have some original old cloth that came off my 83 hpe during
the re-upholstery job.
It's the chequered centre style.
However much of it was separated at the seams to form
patterns. What remains is not in the best of condition, the good bits went
to Denmark and Aus last year.
You're welcome to have some bits and pieces.

Nigel

[peteracs]

Hi Guy

Photos will follow, you are welcome to the seats and when I have decided what to use the rest of the mechanisms. My main reason for stripping them was the plastic covers a couple of which were not great on the HPE.

Peter

[SanRemo78]

Thanks Nigel but the interior on my car isn't the chequered type, it's a blue/grey wool (?) type, I'll take a picture and post it later. The offer is much appreciated though!
Peter, thanks, I'll take whatever remains of your interior! It may be in better condition or allow me to experiment on cleaning and repadding to cushions.
Guy

[SanRemo78]

hi Peter, my eBay purchased visors arrived today, correct pattern/material but both are drivers side (no vanity mirror). One is markedly thicker than the other. The bagged (NOS) one is the thinner of the two. If the material on your seats is the same pattern please keep it for me once you've dismantled them!
Cheers
Guy

[peteracs]

Hi Guy

I think what I have is different, photo of seat base below

Peter

[SanRemo78]

Sadly that's a completely different animal Peter. Never mind, hopefully mine will clean and stitch up like new!

[peteracs]

Hi Guy

I did suspect as much.

Peter

[peteracs]

We have movement on the body restoration at long last…….

Front of Coupe now separated, apparently has loads of under seal and gunk, so is now booked to go off to be stripped. I have my reservations, but John, body guy, is happy that it will not cause a problem. Fingers crossed.

Peter

[peteracs]

Finding a bit more time to try to tick off a few 'to do soon' items.

Started a couple of days ago 'un-warping' and repairing the door/rear trim cards where needed. One door card was perfect amazingly, the other has just the small part in the corner next to the pull up knob for the door latch broken and previously glued very badly. I am repairing this as per the Spider door cards with a soft fabric and PVA which worked very successfully before. The rear trim card which has a bolt on foam pad has a few issues. A couple of the bolts holding the foam pad sheared, so have drilled and had to retap one of the inserts. Not a problem as all hidden once assembled. The main part however is both warped and has broken sections which will need a fair amount of repair. First job was to soak the card and leave with weights to try to remove the warping, slowly it is working.

I have also had a play with the electric power steering pump and ZF rack. I managed to buy an original Peugeot 307 hose set which has the all important fitment for the pump and took that and the original HPE hose to a hydraulic specialist company near to us who took the existing two hoses and made up a test hose to allow high pressure to go from the pump to the rack. The low pressure return was simple enough to make up myself from the rest of the hoses.

The pump has two electrical connectors, one has two beefy power wires, GND and +12V, the other has a 9 pin connector with various wires attached. Simply attaching power to the two pin connector does nothing. After reading a little (Google was my friend) I found out the pinouts of the 9 pin, as here

1 steering angle sensor (n/s/f wheel movement)
2 not used
3 K line
4 vehicle speed signal
5 ign positive
6 steering angle sensor (o/s/r wheel movement)
7+8 not used
9 Bsi output (engine running signal)

Also from someone on a Kit car forum where I first learnt of this pump, there was also the info that you need to attach pin 5 to the ignition switch (+12V) and pin 9 to start the pump (+12V to start). Obviously when installed you would sequence these to suit, but for test I simply attached all three to +12V to the +ve of a battery and GND to the -ve. New ATF fluid was added and amazingly it ran quite sweetly with no leaks thankfully (as it is on the bench). My subjective test was to then attach the lower steering column shaft and try to turn it by hand both with and without the pump running. As I have no yardstick to how it should feel with the original pump I have no idea how effective the electric pump is, but it certainly makes a difference which is a start. I guess I will not know until I can fit the rack in the car with wheels attached. However it feels like positive progress.

Peter

[peteracs]

Have visited the body guy today and we finally have movement and some decisions made……

The front of the HPE has been cut off and the front of the Coupe has been offered up and is at the point of fixing into position. Alignment has been a challenge as the original subframe mounting points are different on the later cars, so the original HPE ones were no use. Also the sills on the HPE are a mess, one of the horizontal door ones is at an angle, the outer ones do not look correct and the inner ones have been previously repaired by adding in a simple sheet of metal fixed with a mixture of spot welding and pop rivets, nothing like as strong as the original inner sill with pressings to increase its strength. Luckily the Coupe sills are still 100% good. The afternoon was spent checking the fit of the windscreen and doors amongst other measurements.

I have also bought a couple of outer sill covers from Mark which we will attach later, but are useful as a reference for now.

The plan is to get the two halves welded together as is and have it sent to Prostrip in Nottingham to have all the paint/sealer/underseal removed. Then attend to the repairs which will include replacing the inner and outer sills. Anyone know where I can get inner sills from? Currently we are looking to have to make them in house, but prefer to buy them if possible. The doors will be attended to separately as it was felt there were too many places that the liquid residue could hide after dipping.

Peter

[Nigel]

Peter,
I wish I'd been there to see this! Picked the wrong weekend!

It's good to see the progress, albeit just the start.

Regards
Nigel