Mystery relays and fuses on a VX HPE. What are they?

[VXdeMayo]

Hello dear friends. whilst chasing the ever elusive starting gremlin down I uncovered these relays and fuses on the left hand side wing just behind the battery.They are covered with a stout black rubber protective cover. I think that is the coil next to them?
What are they and what do they control?
The white one in particular has a 30 Amp rating and heavy duty red and green wires connecting to it?
The Haynes manual is useless with regard to the VX variants, and my printed wiring diagram that came with the car is little better......
Thanks for your help.

[VXdeMayo]

Can anyone help please? 22 views so far but no replies. Someone must know? Is there an actual starter motor RELAY fitted to the VXs’?
Thanks guys.

[rossocorsa]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CCaBvcF3gM32e7CA6
https://photos.app.goo.gl/qEi3QeCiYude9eAEA
https://photos.app.goo.gl/tgZxSgVxwirmoZtm7
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3ly26n5rw2escvalae9ao/Beta-coupe-hpe-series-2-fl2-electrics.pdf?rlkey=roygnwmammlt48tcdwxwvea0l&st=u48hjbt3&dl=0

I don't know where that cut off valve in one of the diagrams is or whether all VX had one, no one seems to know!
The first links are VX specific, the final one is for all final series models. Bear in mind that this one is from '82, the VX specific ones are from '84, alterations are always possible as Lancia were always changing stuff so assume they are a very good guide but not necessarily precise to a specific car.

I suspect that one of the relays you show is probably for the radiator fan?

[SanRemo78]

Just spent 20 minutes looking through the car file for the Stratos which I first built with a VX engine 35 years ago. Nothing there so I will have to spend hours searching old club newsletters.... Unless anyone else (Tim Heath?) can help.

I'm going from memory now (which I'm not sure you can rely on) which may help you track down the wiring?

I THINK one of the relays is a switchover type for the fuel pump and it should have a double power input? One is ignition live when cranking and the other is ignition live when there is oil pressure. A safety system for when the engine isn't running but the ignition is on.

I also THINK the other relay controls the supercharger vapour pump through the temperature sensor in the fuel or water line near the top of the cam belt cover? If the water is hot and the ignition is off it should run to remove any fuel vapour left in the supercharger?

But please don't take this as gospel - two ways to find out are to obtain a wiring diagram (which I have seen in the dim distant past) and the other is to trace wiring from end to end.

Guy

[VXdeMayo]

Thank you Rosso Corsa and Guy. I suspected as much. I think I might have located the possible source of the intermittent/now non starting. I’ll let you know .🤗

[VXdeMayo]

Wow. That’s a lot of info .
Is there such a thing as a VX WIRING DIAGRAM in English?
Happy to purchase one!

Else it’s out with the mobile phone to translate.

[rossocorsa]

Wow. That’s a lot of info .
Is there such a thing as a VX WIRING DIAGRAM in English?
Happy to purchase one!


Else it’s out with the mobile phone to translate.

Not as far as I am aware. These are the only ones I've ever found but it is possible that they were published within UK technical bulletins.

[SanRemo78]

Found an article about wiring the VX specific electrical parts and their operation in the Stratos Club newsletter from many years ago. The attached may be of help? Still looking for actual wiring diagrams published by Lancia!

[VXdeMayo]

Thanks for that. More head scratching / reading will follow.
Keep you guys posted.🤗

[lancialulu]

Found an article about wiring the VX specific electrical parts and their operation in the Stratos Club newsletter from many years ago. The attached may be of help? Still looking for actual wiring diagrams published by Lancia!

Very succinct - I had to work this out from the VX wiring supplement. I does mean (on my car at least) the pump interposing relay sometimes momentarily fires the starter motor solenoid on switching off due to oil pressure switch still being in the "on" position. (it happens on both my VX's) and makes a clunk noise.

Great to think this was written only 6 years after VX production ceased.....

Still waiting for the Zagato moment......

[VXdeMayo]

Hello guys. Thanks for your help. I have studied the diagrams from ROSSOCORSA and they could be very helpful but on printing the Volumex large fuel diagram it loses resolution and becomes unreadable.
My ipad is good, but remote from the car, so not ideal.
I have translated all the Italian legend into english which is a start, but what would be the best option is a hard full sized copy?
Rossocorsa, is it possible for you to get a full size copy printed to a good resolution and send it to me? Of course all costs will be met inc postage etc.
As an afterthought It would be really useful for all current VX owners to have a copy also (Including Mark @ betaboyz) . Maybe charge a nominal fee to all.
I'm sure we would all want one!
Thanks once again.
Chas and Anne May. (Owner of "LULU").

[rossocorsa]

Hello guys. Thanks for your help. I have studied the diagrams from ROSSOCORSA and they could be very helpful but on printing the Volumex large fuel diagram it loses resolution and becomes unreadable.
My ipad is good, but remote from the car, so not ideal.
I have translated all the Italian legend into english which is a start, but what would be the best option is a hard full sized copy?
Rossocorsa, is it possible for you to get a full size copy printed to a good resolution and send it to me? Of course all costs will be met inc postage etc.
As an afterthought It would be really useful for all current VX owners to have a copy also (Including Mark @ betaboyz) . Maybe charge a nominal fee to all.
I'm sure we would all want one!
Thanks once again.
Chas and Anne May. (Owner of "LULU").

I can probably send you the photo uncompressed directly at higher resolution, it is s probably being compressed when sending via the method I used (??)

[VXdeMayo]

what is this WEBER unit on the right hand wing next to the VX oil reservoir? (Round metal "ellectrovalvole")
Is it a "fuel shut off solenoid valve"?
just working through the numerous things to check due to not cranking over.

This gremlin is well hidden.

[VXdeMayo]

Hello guys. Thanks for your help. I have studied the diagrams from ROSSOCORSA and they could be very helpful but on printing the Volumex large fuel diagram it loses resolution and becomes unreadable.
My ipad is good, but remote from the car, so not ideal.
I have translated all the Italian legend into english which is a start, but what would be the best option is a hard full sized copy?
Rossocorsa, is it possible for you to get a full size copy printed to a good resolution and send it to me? Of course all costs will be met inc postage etc.
As an afterthought It would be really useful for all current VX owners to have a copy also (Including Mark @ betaboyz) . Maybe charge a nominal fee to all.
I'm sure we would all want one!
Thanks once again.
Chas and Anne May. (Owner of "LULU").

I can probably send you the photo uncompressed directly at higher resolution, it is s probably being compressed when sending via the method I used (??)

Thanks rossocorsa - I've pm's you with my email address. Please let me know if you haven't received it. Chas.

[rossocorsa]

what is this WEBER unit on the right hand wing next to the VX oil reservoir? (Round metal "ellectrovalvole")
Is it a "fuel shut off solenoid valve"?
just working through the numerous things to check due to not cranking over.

This gremlin is well hidden.

This booklet explains all this stuff

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ze3fii99j1vkrfps8sjin/Volumex.pdf?rlkey=gqhi131axv7g8wi616v0unu4u&st=ieg14thl&dl=0

Does the car turn over if you apply 12v directly to the start solenoid? I'm doubtful that any of the VX modifications are causing the issue. My first suspicion of a car didn't turn over is, if not the starter itself, the ignition switch

[VXdeMayo]

Long story shortened.
We attended a local car show at Corfe Castle a few weeks ago in spite of an intermittent “not cranking / starting issue”. Up until then it usually resolved itself after a while and everything was fine again.
But on our longest drive (80 miles) on stopping overnight it immediately refused to start .
Overnight it resolved itself and stated first time.
Drove to the car show, 15 miles, parked and immediately refused to start.
Waited a couple of hours. Started.
Drove to accommodation.
Repeated 15 miles journey to car show. Parked. Refused to start again.
Waited all day.
Started (thank god), then decided to drive right home without stopping.
Into garage. Now and since has patently refused to start at all.

SYMPTOMS:
When I turn the key I hear a buzzing sound (from the rear I think). I believe that to be the fuel pump. Engine does not turn over at all.

What I have done is :
Recently replaced the key barrel with a good spare.
Checked fusebox and cleaned all contacts within.
Whole carburation system from tank forwards recently restored with Mark @ BETABOYZ.
Carb v clean and good. Settup seems good.
Running when running seems good.
All earth straps replaced with new and doubled up.
Removed starter motor, stripped cleaned and bench tested. All good.
Replaced with spare starter anyway just in case. All good.
When turning the key with red wire OFF solenoid it sends current only when key turned to start. Seems good.

Now don’t know where to look further as not knowing what to check next, in what order.
Thoughts anyone?

[rossocorsa]

I'd suspect the solenoid to be honest

[VXdeMayo]

That’s what I thought, but bench checked it, (both starter motors) and seems fine. Both stripped, cleaned and very lightly regreased with LMP grease.
Going round in circles I am.

[SanRemo78]

Remove the cable from the starter solenoid and connect it, via a test bulb, to earth. Should be out. Ignition on and should still be out, turn it to crank and see it the light comes on. Fault then likely to be the starter solenoid, the earth cable at the engine end or earth at the body. I'm not sure if the power feed to the starter solenoid runs through a relay or not but if it does then check cable feed and wiring continuity to all the relay connections. If desperation sets in then replace wires one by one until you identify the culprit?
Guy

[VXdeMayo]

Thanks for that Guy. Good logical advise which I kind of did before ( but good to know I’m not a complete idiot).
Sit rep:
Having nothing to lose apart from an hours spannering in the sun I removed replacement starter motor unit and popped the old one back in with a replacement solenoid from Mark.
Turned over straight away. No start.
Cleaned and dried the plugs and SHE STARTS!

Many thanks to all for the advice. Im now off to Marks this weekend to get her some ramp time before winter sets in.
Fingers crossed.🤞