Beta handbrake not holding vehicle on a slope

[Gromit]

Greetings Beta owners from down under. Been a while since I communicated with the UK forum which usually means things are going well with my father`s, (now solely mine as he died last year at the ripe old age of 98!), 1979 Beta Coupe 2.0L. Well not quite...

The entire brake system of the car was overhauled professionally in April 2024, (new master cylinder, flexible brake hoses, brake compensation valve, adjuster rod bushes, hand brake cable, reconditioned calipers front and rear plus new pads and re-skimmed rotors).

Caliper overhaul work was sub-contracted out and done by a local Adelaide, (South Australia) based, specialist brake component supplier and repairer, (Power Brakes). They have been in business for 60 years and have a very good reputation throughout Australia for their brake component refurbishment work. They told me they have done quite a few Beta brake caliper overhauls over the years. I supplied the front and rear brake service kits including new front main pistons, (stainless steel ones from Mark W), and rear pistons.

https://www.powerbrakes.com.au/shop/beta/lancia/vehicles%20h-p/page/shop/browse

Upon collection of the reconditioned calipers, I was informed that one rear caliper had a broken thrust clutch which was replaced during reassembly with a second hand one from Power Brakes stock of spare parts.

The hand brake was not holding on anything more than the most gentle of slopes before the refurbishment work, (which I had attributed to a stretched handbrake cable that had run out of adjustment), and even after all the brake work was completed the handbrake was still not holding on a slope!

I took the car back a while ago to the workshop who carried out the brake overhaul work on the car and had the new handbrake cable adjusted in case it had stretched a bit after initial use. It made little difference and the car still does not hold on any slope using the handbrake.

There are no symptoms of the rear brake caliper dragging on the rotor but presumably the handbrake mechanism on one rear caliper is not engaging properly. Which makes me wonder whether the second hand thrust clutch fitted to replace the broken one on one of the rear calipers is itself broken or perhaps the thrust clutch in the other rear caliper is now broken? 

I have had a look at the Haynes manual and there are other handbrake adjusting mechanism components in the rear caliper which I suppose might also potentially be problematic: adjuster spring, (is that the same as the "thrust clutch"?), clearance self-adjuster, bearing which supports the clearance self-adjusting rod, thrust washer etc.

I confess I tend to glaze over when looking at sectional view drawings. I think I might be sectional view drawing dyslexic!

I did read somewhere that if the handbrake mechanism is over tensioned the self-adjusting mechanism won`t work. Here is the Google AI response to my query about the handbrake not working after a rear caliper overhaul:

"A Lancia Beta handbrake that fails to hold after a rear caliper refurbishment is a common issue, usually caused by improper adjustment of the self-adjusting mechanism during reassembly or trapped air in the hydraulic system. The handbrake mechanism in the Girling rear calipers requires a specific, manual setup to activate the auto-adjuster."

Here is a troubleshooting guide based on typical Lancia Beta/Girling caliper issues:

1. The "Knack" - Initial Setup (Most Likely Cause)
If the handbrake cables were attached before the pads were properly seated, the self-adjusters will not work.

    Procedure: Remove the handbrake cables from the calipers.
    Bleed: Bleed the brakes thoroughly.
    Pump: With the engine off, pump the brake pedal hard 5–10 times. This forces the piston out and sets the internal auto-adjuster.
    Check: Ensure the lever on the caliper rests against its stopper.
    Reattach: Reattach the handbrake cables and adjust the tension in the cabin.

2. Check the Caliper Lever

    Sticking Lever: The handbrake lever mechanism on the caliper body is prone to seizing, preventing full movement. Ensure the levers on the caliper are not stuck and return fully to the stop when the handbrake is released.
    Internal Helix Gear: The internal mechanism relies on a helix gear. If the piston was pushed in without being rotated, or if it was not properly rebuilt, this mechanism may not function.

3. Adjuster Setting (Caliper & Cable)

    Caliper Adjustment: The handbrake levers must touch their stops on the calipers when released. If they do not, you must allow the cable to be fully loose, pump the brakes, and let them return to the stop.
    Cable Adjustment: Ensure there is no slack in the cables. Adjust the nut inside the car (under the center console/gear lever cover) until the lever pulls up about 4–7 clicks.

4. Check for Cable/Pad Issues

    Seized Cables: Even with a rebuilt caliper, the handbrake cables themselves might be seized or stiff, not allowing enough force to be applied.
    Wrong Pad Installation: If the pads are installed incorrectly, specifically if the rear pads (which have nubs to catch the caliper piston) are not properly aligned, the handbrake will not function.

Summary Action Plan

    Disconnect cables at the rear calipers.
    Pump brake pedal (hydraulic) 10 times.
    Check if caliper lever returns to its stop.
    Reconnect cables, remove all slack in the cockpit.
    Test on a steep incline.

If the handbrake still does not hold, the internal helical gear mechanism within the caliper may not have been correctly reassembled during the refurbishment."

Hard to believe the workshop who did the brake work did not get the initial brake system reassembly and adjustment right. The owner has been in business for 30+ years and his mechanics are competent. The same mechanic always works on my car...his two uncles were both Fiat factory trained mechanics in Italy who were recruited to Australia by a local Fiat dealer back in the 1970`s!

I assume that one of the rear calipers has a sticking handbrake engagement/adjustment mechanism and possibly another broken "thrust clutch"? Which made me wonder whether anyone might have some rear caliper handbrake mechanism spare parts in case Power Brakes have nothing suitable on the shelf to repair it again.

The local workshop did suggest trying to engage and release the handbrake a number of times to try to free it, when I mentioned the problem whilst I was there getting work done on a different car, ironically my old Mazda 626 GD also with rear brake caliper problems...a failed handbrake mechanism dragging on the rear rotor no less!

Any thoughts, suggestions  or offers of rear caliper handbrake mechanism parts much appreciated!

I had not followed up the problem diligently as the car is a hobby car only used a few times a month, (typically fortnightly), and one can live with a dodgy handbrake, even if hill starts are a bit of a challenge. On the one hand I was fed up with the amount of money spent on the brakes only to find the handbrake holding no better than before, (the calipers were starting to bind which necessitated the overhaul in the first place).

So I thought I would just put up with it rather than take one or both calipers off again and have them, stripped down and inspected again for damaged or broken hand brake mechanism internals. On the other hand it seems crazy to spend all the money on a complete brake system overhaul and not have the handbrake work as it should.

By the way, I have seen new Italian made Fiat rear brake calipers with 34mm and 38mm diameter piston sizes for sale in the UK but not 36mm diameter Beta ones unfortunately! Shame you can`t just buy and fit all new rear calipers!

Cheers,
Andrew

PS Message to moderator: I could not undo italics from "Hard to believe the workshop..."! Italicised text only show up after posting and I could not work out how to edit some of it back to normal unitalicised text.

[peteracs]

Hi Andrew

First on the Italics, if you go to modify the post you will see i enclosed with a pair of [] which is the start of the italics section, then to finish it you use the companion /i which is also enclosed by [].

I have modified it for you, but you may wish to change it to suit.

Secondly, yes I have a few parts from rear calipers you are welcome to.

Peter

[JASPER_40]

Just for reference,

These are the components of the rear caliper, including the adjuster mechanism within the piston itself.

Just re-built my 2 rear calipers and a couple of spare calipers I had aquired. Happened to have 2 piston / seal kits in my cupboard of accumulated spares to do all 4 (there was nothing much on the TV !!)

Cheers,

Steve

[Nigel]

A common problem 40 years ago was the tag on the self-adjust spring
would break. The immediate effect is the failure to self-adjust. The mechanism
then struggles to keep up with pad wear, the handbrake lever starts to rise, and
eventually doesn't hold the car.
There is no method to manually wind the screw, that tag is critical to the operation.
As it's buried deep inside, it's possible it wasn't checked on your rebuild.
And, as you've got new pads, bedding in would have increased the lever action
required to actuate the pads.

I suggest you look at the position of the levers (where the cables join).
They should only be moving around 5/6mm from a fully rest position to when
the pads bite. I suspect that your levers are already far into their travel when the
handbrake lever is fully off. (i.e. the handbrake cables have been adjusted up to attempt
compensating for the lack of self-adjustment)

Not simple to describe, but I hope you get the point.

Nigel

[Gromit]

Nigel,

Your description probably identifies precisely what transpired over the years and would explain the mediocre handbrake holding performance of the Beta Coupe PRIOR to the caliper rebuild ie a broken self-adjusting spring in one rear caliper.

I dug out the damaged and replaced original "thrust clutch" which Power Brakes removed and replaced from one of the calipers when they did the caliper rebuild in 2024 and it is exactly as you described: no protruding tag or right angle extension of the spring beyond the end of the clearance self-adjuster. It had snapped off clean at the point where the spring is still wrapped around the cylindrical body of the clearance adjuster barrel.

Just to be clear to everyone, the broken part in question to which Power Brakes refers to as a "thrust clutch" is the combination clearance adjuster with the self-adjuster spring wound around it, part # 3 and 4 in the sectional view drawing of the rear caliper and piston fig 9.3  of the Haynes Lancia Beta service manual, page 149. It is the part immediately to the right of the piston in the very helpful photo provided by Steve (Jasper_40) in the previous post.

So if the clearance self-adjuster with broken self-adjusting spring, (aka "thrust clutch"), WAS replaced on one caliper during rebuild and presumably the other one was found to be OK, did the other caliper self-adjusting spring break after reassembly of the brake system? Would that explain the current problem?

In which case it looks as if I might need at least one more replacement rear caliper "thrust clutch" or combination clearance self adjuster with an intact and undamaged (protruding tag or spring end not broken off), self-adjusting spring.

Peter, do you have any spare rear caliper clearance self adjusters with intact (unbroken) springs in your spares collection you might be willing to part with?

Andrew

[JASPER_40]

Hi Guys…… just a thought.

Will a failed adjuster spring on just one caliper render the handbrake to inoperative on both sides ? I would think not as the handbrake is an emergency brake after all. I reckon the handbrake would hold on the side with the good adjuster.

Another thing that may cause the adjuster to be poor is the piston rotating as the handbrake is applied. There is a lug on the back of the brake pad that fits into the slot on the piston face plate n order to stop the piston from rotating.

I presume this lug is present on the brake pad and located in the piston slot that is set horizontally ??

Just a random long shot

Steve

[Nigel]

Steve,
With one failed adjuster it's likely you'd get a compromised handbrake performance
as the cable would move through the U channel.
Of course each caliper is independent so braking effect would be greater on the good side.

The piston doesn't rotate. As you said its held by the pad lugs. It's the screw part that does that.
And the central screw can only rotate in one direction (so long as the tag is not broken) as
the spring grips in the other direction.

Nigel

[JASPER_40]

Hi Nigel, intreagued by this thread as I am having all manner of problems with trying to get my brakes to work well enough to pass an inspection. 

Just to add to my previous post, the piston can't rotate but only because the lug on the pad prevents it from doing so leaving the adjuster nut to take up any slack by rotating. Any slack uptake is held in position by the adjuster "spring" which is more of a tightly wound coil around the adjuster nut to prevent it from rotating when the tension in the handbrake is released. We both are on the same page with this.

What I was interested to also check was that the Pads actually had this lug. The long shot being that it may be possible to buy a pad which "fits" but which doesnt have the lug for cars that dont have this self adjusting mechanism. The net effect being then that the piston could then possibly rotate when the handbrake is applied and therefore render the handbrake ineffective.

On a different train of thought......a curious theory maybe ?
If Andrew's brakes work Ok hydraulically on both sides and therfore it is just the mechanical handbrake that is not holding...then if you were to push hard on the brake pedal to take up any mechanical slack and ( with the pedal still pressed ) then pull on the handbrake........would the handbrake then work at this instant  ie handbrake only lifts part way as normal.
The thinking here is that the brake pedal moves the piston to contact the rotor / disc and in doing so moves the adjuster nut accordingly making the handbrake operative in that position and circumstance. (The piston and adjuster nut are essentally fixed together but the adjuster has the ability to rotate within the piston).

So if the handbrake appears to work as per the above then you have a broken adjuster spring ...or a missing lug and possibly on both sides.

Just a final thought....I cant explain why, as Andrew said,  there is no drag at all on the disc when handbrake is off and brakes off. A functioning caliper should alwars drag ever so slightly.

Thinking about this made my time in the Gym pass so quickly today....thanks Guys

Cheers,

Steve

[Gromit]

Steve,

I have tried to get the handbrake to work by pressing hard on the brake pedal at the same time. I tend to do this instinctively as we probably all do on a steeper slope to help get a good handbrake engagement when parking. It did NOT seem to improve the handbrake engagement performance unfortunately. Not sure whether that actually adds to or subtracts from the likelihood of another broken adjuster spring in one of the rear calipers.

When I took the car back to the workshop to get the handbrake cable adjusted some months ago, (thinking that the newly fitted cable might have stretched a bit), hoping that would solve the handbrake under performance, I don`t recall checking that BOTH rear wheels were locked tight, just the right hand one, when observing with the mechanic while the car was on the hoist. Perhaps it would pay to get the car back on the hoist and check whether there is a discernible difference in the degree to which each rear wheel is securely locked when the handbrake is engaged as well as checking handbrake lever travel in every respect: evenness of travel and adjustment etc.

Re no rear caliper drag comment, I meant that there was no evidence when driving the car of caliper failure to the point that the caliper dragged excessively when the handbrake was released and no brake pedal pressure applied ie no telltale metallic scraping or grinding noises that should not be there.  I am assuming that the car is set up correctly with the right pad to rotor distance or proximity when the brakes are in the "disengaged" position. We are talking about a workshop with decades of experience.

Something is clearly not right though which warrants a re-inspection of everything I guess. Presumably other Beta owners have a handbrake that works as it should?

By the way the new pads on the rear are TRW (standard 'Cotec') GDB155 ones, specifically for the Beta. They were the only ones I could source readily in Australia. The front pads fitted are Australian made Bendix General CT ceramic type for low dust and rotor wear. Bendix Australia no longer make rear pads for the Beta (deleted catalogue line).

Andrew

[JASPER_40]

Damn it .....I need to get back to the Gym to have another think about this

[peteracs]

Hi

Interestingly I cannot remember having rear pads with a lug on them with my calipers. The handbrake works really well and does not drag on release, has always passed the MOT test no problems. I do have an issue with the front calipers, but that is another problem due to a leaking seal I believe. A job for when the weather improves.

Peter

[JASPER_40]

Hi Peter,

What I meant by drag is only very slightly so that pads are juuuuuust touching the disc indicating that there is there is no gap between disc and pad. Any greater drag then this is a problem....which is something I would call "binding"

If your rear pads dont have a lug on them to stop the piston rotating I would be really surprised. The front pads do not have the same lug as there is no adjuster mechanism in the front caliper requiring a lug.

PS, Whilst we are at it.....here in Oz we call brake discs "rotors" just in case Ozzie posts cause any confusion.     

Cheers,

Steve

[peteracs]

Hi

Ok, understand re terminology, I would interchange drag and bind and use rub, but so long as we both understand then all is well. I will double check my rear pads when I go and take the front ones off the car probably during March, but really cannot remember any lug on them.

Having watched enough US videos rotors is still a bit odd as is headers and rocker panels, but you get used to it!

Peter

[Gromit]

My father hated it when people here referred to disc brake "discs" as "rotors"!

Then again he refused to accept the term "batter" in (mens) cricket as opposed to the traditional "batsman". "Batters play baseball not cricket!" , he used to insist!

I tend to use the terms interchangeably, a bit of a foot in each camp I guess because of the common use of the term brake rotor in Australia as Steve mentioned.

RE brake binding versus dragging terminology, here is a useful, (American sourced...note reference to "rotor"!), AI generated terminology clarification:

"Both binding and dragging are correct terms, but they describe different stages or aspects of the same issue. The most accurate term for the mechanical failure of the component itself is a seized or stuck caliper.

Here is the breakdown of the terminology:

    Seized/Stuck Caliper (The Cause): This is the mechanical issue where the piston or slide pins are corroded or stuck, preventing them from moving freely.

    Binding (The Action): Used to describe a brake that does not release properly after the pedal is released. It implies a high level of friction that may cause the car to feel sluggish or pull to one side.

    Dragging (The Symptom): Describes the result of a binding brake, where the pads continuously rub against the rotor while driving. This creates excessive heat, potential burning smells, and reduced fuel efficiency.

In short: A seized caliper causes the brakes to bind, which results in the pads dragging on the rotor. 

As alluded to in the initial AI description, a dragging brake caliper might also be inferred to be a more extreme case of binding brakes with potentially more extreme or catastrophic symptoms or potential consequences, (badly warped discs etc), without prompt remedial action or servicing.

Cheers,
Andrew

[Gromit]

One other thought for you Nigel if you are still checking this thread, re this comment from you in an earlier post:

"A common problem 40 years ago was the tag on the self-adjust spring would break".

I was wondering about the reference to "a common problem 40 years ago". Does that mean that there was a spate of Beta rear caliper self-adjust spring failures 40 years ago due to the original component, (self-adjust spring), design flaw or production batch QC failure, (batch of poor quality wound spring wire too brittle perhaps for the task?).

Was it a manufacturer recall problem? Or was there a batch of new rear caliper parts in the 1980`s sold with a dodgy self-adjust spring component that failed prematurely?

Did every Beta owner replace their rear calipers in the 1980`s as a consequence?

I purchased a 4 year old Beta HPE in 1985 with 60,000 km on the clock from new at the tender age of 22. I kept that car for 10 years and did not need to do any rear brake caliper refurbishment work on it as I recall.

Just wondering about the context of the reference to a 40 year ago "common problem" with breaking rear caliper self-adjust springs. Perhaps it was a single production batch problem?

Andrew

[Ferrit]

My old HPE lost its handbrake BitD (guessing at about 1990) and it was the spring tab that had failed on one brake.  Both brakes then failed as there is not enough 'pull' going on when the handbrake is applied.  Rebuild of one side fixed it.

I have rebuilt both my rear calipers for leaking seals, new handbrake cable installed and I think the handbrake is good but not really road tested it as yet.  It was fine before the seal rebuild just with its new handbrake cable installed.  My brakes, when up on axle stands, are very loose on the rear with handbrake off with very little drag.

Mark

[Nigel]

One other thought for you Nigel if you are still checking this thread, re this comment from you in an earlier post:

"A common problem 40 years ago was the tag on the self-adjust spring would break".

I was wondering about the reference to "a common problem 40 years ago". Does that mean that there was a spate of Beta rear caliper self-adjust spring failures 40 years ago due to the original component, (self-adjust spring), design flaw or production batch QC failure, (batch of poor quality wound spring wire too brittle perhaps for the task?).

Was it a manufacturer recall problem? Or was there a batch of new rear caliper parts in the 1980`s sold with a dodgy self-adjust spring component that failed prematurely?

Did every Beta owner replace their rear calipers in the 1980`s as a consequence?

I purchased a 4 year old Beta HPE in 1985 with 60,000 km on the clock from new at the tender age of 22. I kept that car for 10 years and did not need to do any rear brake caliper refurbishment work on it as I recall.

Just wondering about the context of the reference to a 40 year ago "common problem" with breaking rear caliper self-adjust springs. Perhaps it was a single production batch problem?

Andrew

Andrew,
I understand your interest! I was a tech at a main dealer 79 - 81 and I changed
many of these 'springs' due to handbrake levers going high with no adjustment
remaining and often no function either.
This was on a variety of Betas but all no more than 5 years old.
It could well have been a bad batch.
There was no recall as I remember. We put it down to a poor/weak design.
Many were done under warranty.
I know these 'springs' were available separately at the time and our stores had plenty in stock!

We never really found a good reason for the fairly random failure. Although I would say
it was newer cars that suffered, series 2 rather than the first series.

Unfortunately, I can't ask Dudley, who was the workshop manager and a friend, he is no more.

Nigel

[SanRemo78]

Nigel, I wonder if Felix has a stock of said springs still?

Guy

[Nigel]

Guy, quite possibly.
Strangely I don't remember doing this job during my time
at TAK in Johannesburg.

The above work was in the uk in Kent. I wonder where all those parts
ended up?

N.

[JASPER_40]

Been to yhe Gym and contemplated this issue again to form another theory for your consideration......

A synopsis of the originl post from Andrew is that originally the handbrake didnt hold. The brakes were then re-furbished by Power brakes and during the process a broken adjuster  spring was replaced. The calipers were then returned with 2 working adjuster springs and then fitted to the car. The crucial factor is that the Handbrake still didnt hold, as before.
So either one or both adjuster springs again broke or the springs were not the cause of the problem ?

There are 4 scenarios :

1. One or both adjuster springs broke after the refurb causing the adjustment mechanism to become ineffective (unlikely)

2. Brakepads without lugs were fitted or the lugs ground off for reasons I dare not speculate on. This would enable the pistons to rotate and render the adjustment of the handbrake ineffective (possible but likely)

3. The Handbrake cable is too tight / over adjusted which may cause the internal adjuster to not function fully. There should be no tension / pull whatsoever on the caliper handbrake lever when the handbrake is completely off (Ball on the end of the cable should be just loose in the lever cup). The adjuster needs the benefit of a full retun in order to make the best attempt at an adjustment. (Possible)

4. My latest crackpot theory....There are 6 washers that form the return spring (item 10) for the "self adjusting rod" (item 6) as per the schematic in the Haynes Manual,  fig 9.3 on p 149. This series of 6 washers combine to act as a return spring and which must be installed in the correct sequence and in the correct orientation. There is 1 flat washer, which is to protect the casting from the spring movement and then 5 conical shaped spring washers that need to be arranged back to back to act as required.

As all those know who have attempted this......... Installing the "handbrake control shaft" and "handbrake piston drive block" would try the patience if a saint and involves some creative mechanisms to do this before the control shaft can be tapped in.
My crackpot theory is maybe the series of washers were installed incorrectly in the distant past (before refurb at Power Brakes) as it does appear to be difficult to re-fit this control shaft. By reducing the number of washers or having some spring washers facing the same way then the drive block is easier to locate. (crackpot)

the final florish here is in the people who re-furbed the brakes re-assembled the caliper in the same way in which they found it concerning these washers (as one would) then this could be why the handbrake still didnt hold after re-furb.

In total, apart from the overtight handbrake scenario, further investigation will require dismantling the caliper.


I think I need to change my routine at the gym and work harder instead of inventing consipracy theories !!


Cheers,

Steve