Head Gasket

[Neil-yaj396]

I'm getting the parts together for the mechanical restoration of my Coupe at the moment. As I have the pretty rare 1301cc engine in my car getting a new head gasket is proving problematic. I can get a 1297cc gasket but the bore would be out by 1mm; 76.1 v 76.

Could the 1297 gasket be used with 0.5mm on the circumference not presenting a problem? Could it be cut/modified to fit, or is this just a non-starter?

Its the a supplier that 'makes up' gaskets?

Thanks.

[peteracs]

Hi Neil

I would imagine you would be fine with the 1297 one. 1mm and tolerances of manufacture should mean you would not notice. Are there any other differences?

Peter

[rossocorsa]

I'm not sure that there are any real differences, the 1301 was just to get around the strange engine capacity speed limit rules in Italy at the time and I'm not sure if they actually changed anything. If I find time I'll try to have a look at the parts book details

[Neil-yaj396]

I'm not sure that there are any real differences, the 1301 was just to get around the strange engine capacity speed limit rules in Italy at the time and I'm not sure if they actually changed anything. If I find time I'll try to have a look at the parts book details

Alan

As above, they apparently added 1mm to the bore.

[rossocorsa]

I'm not sure that there are any real differences, the 1301 was just to get around the strange engine capacity speed limit rules in Italy at the time and I'm not sure if they actually changed anything. If I find time I'll try to have a look at the parts book details

Alan

As above, they apparently added 1mm to the bore.

It looks like it was a maximum of 0.1mm have a look at the attached. I'm assuming that your engine is 828C3? I will check the parts book later

[lancialulu]

I'm not sure that there are any real differences, the 1301 was just to get around the strange engine capacity speed limit rules in Italy at the time and I'm not sure if they actually changed anything. If I find time I'll try to have a look at the parts book details

Alan

As above, they apparently added 1mm to the bore.

surely they added 1cc not 1mm which is nothing. La Lancia states the bore increased by0.1mm for the 1301 So 0.05mm on the radius. All you have to be careful of is the fire ring does not overlap the cylinder wall- I suspect the early 1300 head gasket will be just fine. My 1978 parts book just lists on head gasket for "1300" #82315350

[rossocorsa]

I had a look at the parts book for pre facelift and the microfiche (more up to date than the corresponding parts book) for facelift cars and in both cases the part number is 82315350.

[Neil-yaj396]

Thanks everyone. I was going from the handbook, which by the looks of it is wrong...

I'll get the standard gasket ordered.

[Neil-yaj396]

Recent debate around not using NOS head gaskets sent a shiver down my spine and rightly so. The NOS gasket I bought has failed to seal the head and it's weeping a not insignificant amount of coolant. Plus, a set of head bolts wasted and God knows how much labour to put it right.

So, where do I get a good new gasket that will fit my 1301 block? The chat around MLS gaskets seemed to suggest that someone makes them to order?

[rossocorsa]

Recent debate around not using NOS head gaskets sent a shiver down my spine and rightly so. The NOS gasket I bought has failed to seal the head and it's weeping a not insignificant amount of coolant. Plus, a set of head bolts wasted and God knows how much labour to put it right.

So, where do I get a good new gasket that will fit my 1301 block? The chat around MLS gaskets seemed to suggest that someone makes them to order?

Really sorry to hear this Neil, unfortunately I'm not really expert enough to help much. For me the result seems surprising. I believe that this  gasket fitted certain mirafiori models as well, you might find more luck searching under Fiats, I'll try to have a look tomorrow at which models it was, 1.4 versions I think with the 1367 engine (?). First thing will be to find out if it's definitely the head gasket at fault or possibly other issues.

[peteracs]

Hi Neil

If you checkout Nigel's Fiat 131 video he had an issue with NOS gasket leaking water

https://youtu.be/Ber32Kjg09Q?si=z2Hr17vgqQZjc9B1

Turned out the copper sealing rings had gone hard and would not compress.

I think his engine is a small capacity so may have same gasket as yours. I think the 1300 you have has smaller bores than the 1600/2000 with 84mm bores?

Peter

[rossocorsa]

Hi Neil

If you checkout Nigel's Fiat 131 video he had an issue with NOS gasket leaking water

https://youtu.be/Ber32Kjg09Q?si=z2Hr17vgqQZjc9B1

Turned out the copper sealing rings had gone hard and would not compress.

I think his engine is a small capacity so may have same gasket as yours. I think the 1300 you have has smaller bores than the 1600/2000 with 84mm bores?

Peter

Very interesting and not something that I would have thought about!

[rossocorsa]

Recent debate around not using NOS head gaskets sent a shiver down my spine and rightly so. The NOS gasket I bought has failed to seal the head and it's weeping a not insignificant amount of coolant. Plus, a set of head bolts wasted and God knows how much labour to put it right.

So, where do I get a good new gasket that will fit my 1301 block? The chat around MLS gaskets seemed to suggest that someone makes them to order?

Neil just curious as to which head bolts did you use? And which torque settings?

[Neil-yaj396]

Recent debate around not using NOS head gaskets sent a shiver down my spine and rightly so. The NOS gasket I bought has failed to seal the head and it's weeping a not insignificant amount of coolant. Plus, a set of head bolts wasted and God knows how much labour to put it right.

So, where do I get a good new gasket that will fit my 1301 block? The chat around MLS gaskets seemed to suggest that someone makes them to order?

Neil just curious as to which head bolts did you use? And which torque settings?

The bolts were supplied by Betaboyz, I think they are pretty universal. As they are out of stock now I'd be interested in alternatives. They were torqued as per Haynes.

[rossocorsa]

Recent debate around not using NOS head gaskets sent a shiver down my spine and rightly so. The NOS gasket I bought has failed to seal the head and it's weeping a not insignificant amount of coolant. Plus, a set of head bolts wasted and God knows how much labour to put it right.

So, where do I get a good new gasket that will fit my 1301 block? The chat around MLS gaskets seemed to suggest that someone makes them to order?

Neil just curious as to which head bolts did you use? And which torque settings?

The bolts were supplied by Betaboyz, I think they are pretty universal. As they are out of stock now I'd be interested in alternatives. They were torqued as per Haynes.

Were they the ones with ribe tops? Yield type? If so they require the torque (not sure off top of head) then 90⁰ + 90⁰

[Neil-yaj396]

Turned out the copper sealing rings had gone hard and would not compress.

I think his engine is a small capacity so may have same gasket as yours. I think the 1300 you have has smaller bores than the 1600/2000 with 84mm bores?

Peter

Yes, as per the original post above the bore is 76.1. The garage are 100% that the gasket is at fault.

[Neil-yaj396]

Recent debate around not using NOS head gaskets sent a shiver down my spine and rightly so. The NOS gasket I bought has failed to seal the head and it's weeping a not insignificant amount of coolant. Plus, a set of head bolts wasted and God knows how much labour to put it right.

So, where do I get a good new gasket that will fit my 1301 block? The chat around MLS gaskets seemed to suggest that someone makes them to order?

I'm afraid you have blinded me with science there Alan. I thought they were just the standard bolts but with Torx heads....

Neil just curious as to which head bolts did you use? And which torque settings?

The bolts were supplied by Betaboyz, I think they are pretty universal. As they are out of stock now I'd be interested in alternatives. They were torqued as per Haynes.

Were they the ones with ribe tops? Yield type? If so they require the torque (not sure off top of head) then 90⁰ + 90⁰

[rossocorsa]

Neil

I did have a quick look for gaskets, i couldn't find anywhere that made the gaskets new. It really does look like it could be due to the copper age hardening on NOS ones

[rossocorsa]

Recent debate around not using NOS head gaskets sent a shiver down my spine and rightly so. The NOS gasket I bought has failed to seal the head and it's weeping a not insignificant amount of coolant. Plus, a set of head bolts wasted and God knows how much labour to put it right.

So, where do I get a good new gasket that will fit my 1301 block? The chat around MLS gaskets seemed to suggest that someone makes them to order?

Neil just curious as to which head bolts did you use? And which torque settings?

The bolts were supplied by Betaboyz, I think they are pretty universal. As they are out of stock now I'd be interested in alternatives. They were torqued as per Haynes.

Were they the ones with ribe tops? Yield type? If so they require the torque (not sure off top of head) then 90⁰ + 90⁰

It's 40nm +90⁰ +90⁰

[Ics19]

Was a re-torque done after a few hundred miles?  I know it's not in the Haynes or workshop manual afaik, but I recall GC recommending it where a stock gasket (not the later polymer type) is used. I've done a re-torque with plain bolts and it's still going(!), just paint mark the heads, back off 1/4 then re-torque. Must be done when stone cold and follow the original bolt sequence, they will tighten up further.

Guessing the dowel heights were checked so not to bottom out if the head was skimmed?

In SOHC FIAT land, re-torque was always a thing and even when they moved to TTY bolts and astadur polymer gaskets that were supposed to mitigate a re-torque they issued a service letter saying a further 60+30 angle is needed after 600 miles 🤦‍♂️