Author Topic: SA Import Beta 2000 Coupe (Read 39173 times)

kbetas · « **Reply #300 on:** December 28, 2025, 02:49:02 PM »

head cleaned

Nigel · « **Reply #301 on:** December 28, 2025, 10:51:36 PM »

Hi Mark,

These honing marks can last for hundreds, even multiple thousands of miles and can indicate good sealing
of rings and a gentle and correct running in period, all pointing to a healthy bottom end.

I haven't read why you say the head needs to come off. You mention zero compression,
have you checked the valve clearances and the cambelt tension and timing? I suggest you do
two compression tests, one as is, then another with a few squirts of engine oil in each bore. Doing this
will tell you if the issue is rings or valves.

The head can be removed with both manifolds in place, and it's easier to refit like this as some of the
bolts are really hard to get at in place. New manifold to down-pipe studs are recommended, along with new brass nuts.

WApp if you like.

Nigel

peteracs · « **Reply #302 on:** December 28, 2025, 11:03:42 PM »

Hi Nigel

I think the loss of coolant and the clean pistons indicate a head gasket failure, or worse......

Peter

Nigel · « **Reply #303 on:** December 28, 2025, 11:49:56 PM »

Ah, yes Peter. I missed those important details.
It is indeed probably a head gasket issue.

Nigel

SanRemo78 · « **Reply #304 on:** December 29, 2025, 09:57:35 AM »

Did the gasket look like it had failed Mark? Is there any water in the oil?

HFStuart · « **Reply #305 on:** December 29, 2025, 11:09:37 AM »

Quote from: Ferrit on December 28, 2025, 12:00:41 PM

I have, Peter found and supplied one. Interestingly I have read a few times (inc in my GC book) to not use it but use a HT bolt and lock nuts.

Questions I have are:

1. how best to remove head, ie manifold on or off?

2. bearing in mind I am doing this on my drive and with a reduced budget for the time being, what should I check and do as a matter or course even if the head and block is in great nick? Obv if the engine is a mess thats a whole different longer term story. Interestingly looking at the photos down the bore myself and friend noticed it looked like honing marks... I wonder what I will find when I get the head off? Cant wait but its going to be later this week.

M

Manifolds and indeed carb on. Gives you some leverage and much easier to strip on the bench. It's worth ordering a pair of cylinder head spikes to help (Link below) Take care when lifting the head to do it cleanly. If you put it down again off-line you can mark the head face with the dowels in the block. Speaking of which note where they are, revove them and keep them safe.

The honing marks can be visible for years - don't worry about it. Once you've got the head off anything serious will be obvious - misaligned piston crowns, disconnecting rods badly scratched bores etc. Pop the sump and check the big ends if your feeling paranoid! Otherwise take the opportunity to strip and clean the head new gasket, new bolts if you don't know the history of the old ones.

https://motorsport-tools.com/catalog/product/view/_ignore_category/1/id/64211/s/motamec-engine-building-cylinder-head-stands-holder-set-steel-mounts/

Ferrit · « **Reply #306 on:** December 29, 2025, 11:51:12 PM »

thank you for the advice so far and the link HF Stu

I managed to spend a couple hours and get everything off baring the exhaust downpipe and the head bolts. Cams look fine, there is water in the oil, cam timing looks fine. So tomorrow hopefully I will see. Depending what I find will guide my approach.

Obv stuff will be trying out the stainless water pipes I have and a new water pump (I have in stock ready), some new hoses, new exhaust studs etc.

So engine code is 828B1000 - 040230x. This seems to be post 82 so should have had Ribe-CV type bolts and it didnt. Lets see what tomorrow brings...

Meanwhile in the garden my boys and I managed to level my workshop build site and moved 3.5t of mot1, another 1.5 coming tomorrow. On my way to freeing up my garage :-)

rossocorsa · « **Reply #307 on:** December 30, 2025, 12:55:11 AM »

Quote from: Ferrit on December 29, 2025, 11:51:12 PM

thank you for the advice so far and the link HF Stu

I managed to spend a couple hours and get everything off baring the exhaust downpipe and the head bolts. Cams look fine, there is water in the oil, cam timing looks fine. So tomorrow hopefully I will see. Depending what I find will guide my approach.

Obv stuff will be trying out the stainless water pipes I have and a new water pump (I have in stock ready), some new hoses, new exhaust studs etc.

So engine code is 828B1000 - 040230x. This seems to be post 82 so should have had Ribe-CV type bolts and it didnt. Lets see what tomorrow brings...

Meanwhile in the garden my boys and I managed to level my workshop build site and moved 3.5t of mot1, another 1.5 coming tomorrow. On my way to freeing up my garage :-)

The original bolts did have normal heads but were yield type bolts which is, of course confusing. Replacement bolts have ribe type heads which are great, there is very little risk of the tool slipping.

WestonE · « **Reply #308 on:** December 30, 2025, 06:34:26 PM »

As the head is off go the full way and check the valves are not bent before lapping them into the seats as a minimum. You will probably find from rocking the valves in the guides that the guides need replacing and you absolutely want to replace the valve stem oil seals or a smokey engine awaits soon after re-assembly.

WestonE · « **Reply #309 on:** December 30, 2025, 06:40:32 PM »

Read the threads on Head gaskets and make sure you use NEW bolts with the threads in the block tapped clean. There are a lot of very poor head gaskets on the market take great care with what you buy.
Gold standard is the Cometic MLS with Studs not bolts. You should be able to find and Astradur Brown resin VX type gasket as a cheaper alternative.

peteracs · « **Reply #310 on:** December 30, 2025, 10:02:26 PM »

Be also aware of new old stock items. Watched the video by a chap on YouTube (https://youtube.com/@nigelsfiat131channel) who rebuilt a 131 engine and used an old stock item which had copper sealing rings as part of it which had gone hard and would not compress correctly and lead to a leaking head gasket!

Peter

Ferrit · « **Reply #311 on:** December 30, 2025, 11:41:55 PM »

Thank you Eric and Peter. Any suggestions for suppliers of gaskets and bolts, and if going for 'Gold standard is the Cometic MLS with Studs not bolts' any suggestions for suppliers?

Head off today: see pictures. Manifold the exhaust bolts were in mint condition so everything came off easily. Head bolts were not really tight at all. GC says the old bolts if re-used will never torque up tight.

I have been reading my GC book and making notes. I will be checking, cleaning etc and am in no rush. Time to get to the water pump and broken cam tensioner bolt, and do a lot of cleaning etc. I will replace most of the coolant hoses this time and have a pair of stainless hard coolant pipes to go on.

peteracs · « **Reply #312 on:** December 31, 2025, 12:24:42 AM »

Interesting to see the head gasket parts broken.

I bought RIBE headed bolts from Ricambio, https://www.ricambio.co.uk/products/head-bolt-kit-fiat-croma-tipo-tempra-lancia-delta-dedra-thema-beta

I will buy an MLS one this coming year. I was given a couple of suppliers, but there is only one manufacturer. Eric should be along to fill in details as do not have to hand.

Peter

HFStuart · « **Reply #313 on:** December 31, 2025, 09:50:14 AM »

Pretty conclusive then!! I'll confess I've not seem one go in quite that way before. I wonder if No.1 somehow caused No.4 (or t'other way around) ?

peteracs · « **Reply #314 on:** December 31, 2025, 10:33:14 AM »

I wonder if the comments re the head bolts not being that tight may have contributed. Mark, I assume no history if the engine had the gasket replaced and they did not torque it up correctly?

Peter

SanRemo78 · « **Reply #315 on:** December 31, 2025, 10:58:32 AM »

That's a pretty catastrophic gasket failure! Amazing that it went at both ends at the same time. I would suspect that that was caused by the cylinder head bolts not being torqued down properly, hopefully the head will be okay.

Guy

Ferrit · « **Reply #316 on:** December 31, 2025, 11:34:44 AM »

When I dropped the oil there was no metalwork attached to the mag sump plug I fitted. I think the engine was okay. Compression of the middle cylinders was 180+. Zero smoke when driving or startup even after a prolonged layup.

I will strip the manifolds off the head and clean it up and I will try to check for any warp etc. I will have a good look at what I have before making any further decisions. I will report back

squiglyzigly · « **Reply #317 on:** December 31, 2025, 04:11:49 PM »

If your car is a 1995cc it looks like someone has dropped some high compression pistons in there unless SA motors were different from European spec. Probably from a 1585cc motor by the looks of the piston crowns. Whilst it will make more power/torque it may need revised ignition timing to avoid pinking with the extra compression. Pinking/detonation will of course shorten the life of the head gasket among other internals. This is worth noting when choosing head gasket thickness.

Hope the rebuild goes well
Ian

WestonE · « **Reply #318 on:** December 31, 2025, 05:38:50 PM »

Darren Cooksey at Monte Servicing and Repairs in Kingsclere will source you the correct port cut out the right way round gasket. Note NOT the Integrale Cometic MLS Gasket. The 10mm studs are ARP from your Integrale supplier of Choice. Tanc Barrett has been good to me.

peteracs · « **Reply #319 on:** December 31, 2025, 11:35:06 PM »

Hi Ian

I wonder if you may be thinking they are domed pistons (optical illusion?), but I think they are actually dished ones (I could be wrong of course) so nothing like the high compression pistons I bought for my engine build which are domed and meant for a 1600 engine.

Peter

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Author Topic: SA Import Beta 2000 Coupe (Read 39173 times)